"Criminals Are Made, Not Born"

This week we are stepping into the shadows of the past as we uncover the chilling realities and patterns behind one of America's darkest days, the 1927 Bath Township School Massacre. But this isn't just a history lesson; it's an urgent call to foster vigilance and critical thinking. During the episode we'll dissect the actions of individuals like Andrew Kehoe, who sought notoriety through devastation, and we draw parallels to modern-day threats that could be lurking in the most familiar places.

The complexities of human behavior take center stage as we analyze the psychological tapestry that weaves together perpetrators of violent crimes. From the overlooked 'boogeyman' next door to the 'injustice collector' in our midst, we reveal the catastrophic outcomes that ensue when warning signals go unnoticed. Our conversation navigates the intricate web of personal crises, control, and the narrative that individuals like Kehoe construct to justify their actions. We don't just recount these historic events; we scrutinize them to arm ourselves with knowledge that could very well save lives.

Wrapping up our deep dive, we shift our attention from the academic to the actionable, discussing the tools and preparedness strategies essential for responding to critical incidents. We draw lessons from harrowing events like the Beslan school siege, underscoring the importance of proactive safety measures and the power of training to alter behavior. As you listen, I ask you to not just absorb but to implement change in your environment, enhancing your personal security and that of your community. This episode isn't just a reflection on the past; it's a blueprint for a safer future.

Thank you so much for tuning in, we hope you enjoy the episode and please check out our Patreon channel where we have a lot more content, as well as subscriber only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don’t forget that Training Changes Behavior!

Chapters

• 0:00 Uncovering the Dark Patterns of History
• 8:31 The Bath Township Massacre
• 18:48 Analyzing Patterns of Controlling Narratives
• 28:56 Recognizing Patterns of Violence and Control
• 38:17 Emergency Resilience Training and Preparedness
• 49:04 Security and Preparedness Training Discussion
• 1:01:09 Lesson Learned on Victim Selection

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. This week we are stepping into the shadows of the past as we uncover the chilling realities and patterns behind one of America's darkest days the 1927 Bath Township School Massacre. But this isn't just a history lesson. It's an urgent call to foster vigilance and critical thinking. During the episode, we'll dissect the actions of individuals like Andrew Kehoe, who sought notoriety through devastation, and we draw parallels to modern-day threats that could be lurking in the most familiar places. Complexities of human behavior take center stage as we analyze a psychological tapestry that weaves together perpetrators of violent crimes, from the overlooked boogeyman next door to the injustice collector in our midst. We reveal the catastrophic outcomes that ensue when warning signals go unnoticed. Our conversation navigates the intricate web of personal crisis control and the narrative that individuals like Kehoe construct to justify their action. We don't just recount these historic events. We scrutinize them to arm ourselves with knowledge that could very well save lives. Wrapping up our deep dive, we shift our attention from the academic to the actionable, discussing the tools and preparedness strategies essential for responding to critical incidents. We draw lessons from harrowing events like the Beslan school siege, underscoring the importance of proactive safety measures and the power of training to alter behavior. As you listen, I ask to not just absorb, but to implement change in your environment, enhancing your personal security and that of your community. This episode isn't just a reflection on the past. It's a blueprint for a safer future. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the episode, and please check out our Patreon channel, where we have a lot more content as well as subscriber-only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I'd kindly ask that you leave us a review and, more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don't forget that training changes behavior. All right, well, good morning Greg, and hello to everyone listening in.

Speaker 1: 2:00

Today we're going to be talking about an event that occurred 97 years ago, right around this time that a lot of people don't know about In fact, this is something we discuss in a lot of our training courses don't know about. In fact, this is something we discuss in a lot of our training courses. The only time people have ever even heard of it was when we were literally in the area where this occurred, 97 years ago. And what we're talking about is there was one of the worst attacks in US history. One of the worst school attacks ever was in 1927 in Bath Township, michigan was in 1927 in Bath Township Michigan, by this guy, andrew Kehoe, and you know ended up killing 45 people at the time, injuring a lot more.

Speaker 1: 2:34

And I'm going to put a link to the news story in the episode details because for everyone to read there's some great insight in there. But there's a few reasons why I want to talk about this One. There's historical perspective about everything. Nothing is new, you know, there's something that came before it and so it helps understanding these things in the past, because it helps us make sense of something that's happening today, because then we can kind of reduce the novelty and it'll maybe it'll help us see things a little bit clearer. Also, one we talked about too a lot of people have never heard of this. There's been other attacks continued since then that are very similar.

Speaker 1: 3:08

But basically what happened was this guy Kehoe was on a part of the school board there not a real popular guy then was upset about a number of things going on in his life going on in his life and so decided to um, blow up, attack the school packet full of explosives, detonated them with a pretty you know a low level, sophistication, highly organized device, right. Um, they found even more explosives that didn't go off and a backup way of doing it. But the idea was he he, you know it ignited and detonated this bomb at the school, killed a whole bunch of people, set his property which was in foreclosure, his barn, his house, set it all on fire after he killed his wife. Then when people are showing up to his place telling them you might want to go to the school right now, so everyone finds out that the school something's going on there. Everyone heads there. Something's going on there. Everyone heads there. He heads there with what we would call today a V-BID, a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device, where, a while after big takeaways too, I always like to talk about, which is a similar sentiment among a lot of people is he had a sign hanging on his front and on the fence post or somewhere on his property that said criminals are made, not born, which, from a human behavior perspective, tells you everything you need to know about this kind of person.

Speaker 1: 4:45

Just with that one statement, obviously saying this isn't my fault, I'm not responsible, it's all of you, which is fucking bullshit to say, to keep it very scientific. You know that's total junk, but you see that as a common theme. So there again, like I said, I just want to give a quick overview of what happened. So if you're listening you're kind of on the same page. You can deep dive that all you want. Like I said, I'll have this article that recaps. It has a lot of great. Actually it's a short article that has a ton of great information in there, with a bunch of short little insights. That was from from Sean.

Speaker 1: 5:18

Our consigliere sent that one over and this is why we want to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 5:22

So that's a little bit of the background and the insight into all of this and why we're discussing it is, like I said, these events have occurred before in the past in similar manner, and so if we can understand some of these and how they occur and the events that need to occur in order for you know and coalesce, in order for something like this to happen there's a lot and that's the areas that need to occur in order for you know and coalesce, in order for something like this to happen, there's a lot, and that's the areas that we focus on are what are all of these things going on prior to the event, not going back and saying, oh, you could have done this or you could have seen that.

Speaker 1: 5:56

It's like, well, you know, no one told me that or I didn't know that, right, but but what we see is we take these, these events, and we go what are the similar things across all of them that happened prior, to, that needed to happen in order for this to occur, so I can look for and identify those pre-event indications of something in the future. And now it captured my attention. So now I'm not the person on the news going yeah, well, I guess, now that we see it, I should have seen this or I should have done that.

Speaker 2: 6:29

Couldn't have seen that coming.

Speaker 1: 6:30

Yeah, and you know that's the initial part. And then later on, everyone goes oh yeah, well, I didn't know, I didn't know, which is true, Because you're not trained to look for a school shooter or someone carrying out this attack, but you don't, you don't need to be right.

Speaker 2: 6:48

You don't need some highly specific.

Speaker 1: 6:49

I mean, you don't. You don't need some highly specific, specified training unless your role is to go find that person. It's just what we're talking about, or what are those incongruent signals right that someone can pick up on and go hey, wait a minute. Something doesn't seem right here, and here's why I need to investigate this further, because they were all over with this one. But I'm going to throw you, greg, because I've been talking for a few minutes now on where we want to get started and I left out a lot of the great details, just so we can get into them as part of the discussion.

Speaker 2: 7:19

No, and I'll tell you every time that you do an opening like that. Brian, I took a page full of notes because you talk about a variety of things, all of which matter, and what I want people to understand going in I apologize, I had something on my gosh damn glasses is that we're not unpacking psychopathy of the offender to the point of, you know, breaking down all the DNA and this horse shit that most of the other people do. Our job, what we're the best in the world at, is human behavior pattern recognition and analysis. So what we do is we look for patterns in things and then we analyze them to determine were there key takeaways that we should have or could have seen that we can pay forward? So when an incident starts to coalesce again, we can go wow, this sounds remarkably similar, and why aren't we looking at these cues right Now? One caution don't put cues in a basket unless on the outside of that basket it's for cues, because what happens is the round peg square hole is the quickest way to get off mark. And you talk about historical perspective.

Speaker 2: 8:31

So I'm growing up with a Marine dad, a two-fisted Marine dad that liked to make sure I understood both left and right, no matter what I was doing. It was wrong. But my dad loved fishing right, no matter what I was doing. It was wrong. But my dad loved fishing. So as a reserve cop during the Detroit riots and as a heating and cooling specialist a skill that he learned when he left Tennessee and came to Detroit he met a lot of people and one of the people he met was from what was called Coffee Cadillac, the biggest Cadillac dealer in Detroit. It was Zach Sekula, the biggest salesman. My dad did his heating and cooling. So he said hey, andy, here's a weekend Friday, saturday, sunday every year that you can go up to my property. I've got a private lake and all these series of homes on the lake Wildest thing I ever saw in my life, brian. And as we went through there to get to the lakes, we always had to go through Bath Township and my dad would always stop in town. There's a Veterans Memorial and James Cousins Memorial Park and when we went there it wasn't just a Veterans Memorial, they talked about the James Cousins School and then before that, the Bath Township Massacre. Didn't even know what massacre was. I was young, you know, when do you learn that word? And it said right on there 45 dead, 58 injured. May 18th 1927, brian. That changed the way I thought of the rest of the world, because the dead were mostly kids and I had never heard of the term massacre and I knew what a war was because my dad wouldn't let me. Not understand what the Veterans Memorial was right, but when they co-aligned these things together it was like holy shit, how did we get here? And so every time that we went up there, every year, we'd go there and we'd stop at that park. I said one day we're going to turn this into something more than just this memorial.

Speaker 2: 10:21

And when you look back at Andrew Kehoe Brian, andrew Kehoe is not the devil, okay, but the devil was in him. Andrew Kehoe was 55. All the pictures you see of Andrew Kehoe, they make him look demonic and you know they change the black and white and you know he's sitting back in his chair. He was a school board member. As a matter of fact, he was the treasurer of the school board before he got voted out. So what we have to do is we have to take a look at these people and go. They're our next-door neighbor, that's my neighbor across the street that I see every day and are they in trouble Because you think of this? Just a couple of the simple things that he did. Just a couple of the simple things that he did. He spent months going to and from the school and the outbuildings, loading each building up with pyrotol.

Speaker 2: 11:15

And, brian, not all of those bombs, as you indicated, went off, but the ones that did go off were significant enough to destroy almost all of the structures. Brian, then he waits, he lies in wait, okay, and that's first-degree premeditated murder. First of all, the use of the explosives, doing it on the first day of school. Hey, start writing those down, folks, because that's the pattern.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Then, brian, he waits an hour and a half after this initial explosion and he drives to the school with his homemade v-bid and he has a lever action rifle to detonate it, because he knows that's going to work perfectly.

Speaker 2: 11:51

And what's he doing? He rolls down the window on his car and he waves folks over to his car and he says, hey, come over here, I got something to tell you. And then, boom, he detonates that and one of the poor kids, uh, that had survived the initial blast an hour and a half earlier, was standing there with some supervisors and adults and teachers and he just destroys them and himself with this, with this constructed dynamite, constructed bomb. And, brian, there's a lot there to unpack and I'd even like to go back to you know the preparations that he did at his own house and what, killing a significant other before you go on a rampage. I think those are the types of things that people will most likely see, and this is not a guy that came unhinged and went out to the school with a rifle minutes after something happened, and nor are any of the other kids that we see that shoot up a school. You see what I'm saying it has to percolate, it has to germinate, it has to grow that anger.

Speaker 1: 12:55

And to kind of you know, because everyone wants to then say well, like you said, what's the psychology or physiology behind this person? Uh, what you know, did they have a chemical imbalance? What was their childhood like? What did they experience? What were all of these things? And and I I understand why people want to get into that, because they want to understand why this would occur. Who would do something like this?

Speaker 2: 13:21

and because they want to say that would never be me.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Right, well, well, that that's a big part of it is to to say, well, it'll never be me, or I don't know someone, or or here's why I can't just have this unknown. So I have to. And those things I can understand, like whether or not I experienced it, I can go oh, wow, you had a troubled childhood and then this happened, and this happened, and then now all of these events and and, and you one, you can't prove that any of those things had any influence on on what it is, in a sense, precisely right, you, you actually can't. Um, just because someone had a shitty childhood or was overly aggressive or had a different, that doesn't necessarily mean anything other than here's what's going on with this person when compared to a typical human being at that age or whatever that's it. It's a comparison, it doesn't. You can't draw some sort of causal meaning between those things and and what occurred. Now can you say, hey, this may have been a either minor or major contributing factor. Sure, sure, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 14:26

There's a, there's a, there's a host of things, and the reason why I bring that up is because you know it goes back to this guy was on the school board. You know what I mean. Like this is someone you know who is, who's at the school board meeting next to you. And I don't do that to scare people, I do it to the veil of this is the boogeyman, because if you go down the path of this is the boogeyman, you're never going to see it because the fucking boogeyman doesn't exist. Okay, you know, there is no Bigfoot, there is no Chupacabra. It's a story gone wrong, right, and there's a false attribution and it's an error in sense sense making and it screws over everyone, because now no one sees this coming. And the other thing is, you know, when people call things unprecedented or you know this is we've never, we've never seen something like this before. They're telling on themselves. They're what they're doing. When someone, when people say that they're telling on themselves, they're saying I'm ignorant, I don't know about this stuff, so I'm. This must be something that's that's so chaotic and rare, and it almost never is.

Speaker 1: 15:30

And so you know when, when you get past the sensationalism, we talk about these different details. Why? Because because these are are signals of him on transmit. That's what I love. There's some great lines, even in the article that'll be in details, where you know the woman is going to go to take a picnic on his property and he's like, yeah, you, you might want to enjoy that picnic while you can. You know it's like, who says that shit? Um, you know, I mean in in all of these things and and you know the all of those pre-event indications are significant and important because they have meaning to the person that says them. And if all humans are on transmit, I can get some understanding of what your intent may be.

Speaker 1: 16:10

And this guy was laying it out there. I mean, kehoe is just one thing after another. You know what? He was the problem person. No one liked him, so they didn't re-elect them. And then there may, he was mad about them raising their, raising his taxes and which, which is everyone should be. Um, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:24

And then he, but no one, no one took this seriously and especially it being 1927 and not seeing an attack like this, you know before in that area. I mean, the effect he had was, I believe he killed like 25 or 30 percent of the population of children in that area. Yeah, that community. I mean, think about that. Imagine right now your city or your town or your community. A quarter of the children are just gone. I mean, that's what you're talking about here. That's how, that's the the level of the impact it had, and so it it's um it. You know it's not to sit here and and and go through. I. I just get frustrated. You brought it up. You know when people get that this is why someone would do that and this is no, it's not. You cannot prove any of that You're doing that no, but it sells books, Brian.

Speaker 1: 17:11

And justification. You're doing it after the fact, never talking to any of these people, never knowing anything about them other than what you've read, and then coming up with. Here's my hypothesis. None of that can be proven in any of these cases. None of it can be proven right. What you can prove is here are the steps they took. Here's where they demonstrated their intent. Here's where they knew what they were going to do was wrong and and shouldn't be done. Here's how they said that. And because you know I mean that. That. That's why I brought up a statement of where he said you know, criminals are made, not born.

Speaker 1: 17:43

That's such a common theme between people who carry out these attacks. It's a I'm not the problem, you're all the problem. So so I can say, I can say these typically, these are people that do not take responsibility for their lives and their actions. How do I know that? Because they prove it. They say well, it's all your fault, not mine, and if it wasn't for you, I'd be doing these things. It's like it's all your fault, not mine, and if it, if it wasn't for you, I'd be doing these things. It's like, well, you just, you just lack the ability to take responsibility for your actions and and so so I can use that as an indicator. Right, when I see them doing all these things, it's like, well, does this person take responsibility for their actions? Oh, okay, no, oh, this is more significant than the other person over there, because you, you know what I, and this is how we weigh that stuff out and I kind of went on a little bit of a tangent there.

Speaker 2: 18:23

No, no, no, you're right on, you're right on. So let me tie back to some gems. Let's go back to some gems that you talked about, brian. So, first of all, there's a lot of comparisons here. There's a number of comparisons here with Charles Whitman, austin Texas.

Speaker 1: 18:41

Austin, Texas, 1960. Power shooter.

Speaker 2: 18:42

Yeah, austin, texas, power shooter. Now listen, the first thing that you said that ties me to that mentally and the reason I wrote it down is that Whitman said dear Lord, do an autopsy because something's grown in my brain making me stupid. And sure enough. Okay, we find you know physiology. You mentioned that. Okay, so it led to psychopathy. Well, there's a direct link that we could make.

Speaker 1: 19:08

Yeah, he had a tumor. Yeah, he has a tumor Right, yeah, so his reasoning and everything.

Speaker 2: 19:16

But there's something else there, and I want to talk about that in a minute, that he killed before he killed. But you talked about the sign, so I want to kind of jump ahead to the. You have to understand, folks, the reason this is important in pattern recognition and then the subsequent analysis. Andrew Kehoe went and found just the right piece of wood. He didn't grab a piece of wood from the ranch that was laying on the ground. He found a very specific piece of wood that he then took to his shop and he cut and then he routered and dug with different tools tools these letters into it, then he sanded and polished it, then he painted the letters black and then he stained the wood before he created the hanger that he put out on his ranch. Brian, just with that information, is that important?

Speaker 2: 20:09

is that significant? Okay, so so you're telling me that he doesn't take responsibility for his actions? What actions did he take responsibility for? The pirates, all the months long setting?

Speaker 1: 20:19

up his message.

Speaker 2: 20:22

So that's where we have to look, folks. You have to turn over the bed and look under the bed. You have to go into the closet and move the clothes, and I really mean that figuratively and not just metaphorically, but I mean that you have to do those things. Why? So? We take a look at Whitman and many others. The kid at the school and Yuval Day did the same thing.

Speaker 2: 20:46

You have a significant other, whether it's a grandmother, whether it's your wife, whether it's your mom, and what you do is you shoot them before you initiate this horrific let's call it a massacre, whatever you want to call it this episode. Why? Why? Well, if we take a look at Yuval Day, he shot his grandmother in the face and then took her car and then did a bunch of other things. He fully intended to kill her. As a matter of fact, before he left the home, he was convinced she was dead. I'll back up that statement in court, you know, in testimony, and give you a bunch of evidence, but I don't need to. So let's go from that all the way back to Whitman. Whitman does it to his mom and then he does it to his wife. Well then, you got Kehoe. That does it to his wife and then he goes.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Why would somebody do that? Why would the the, the, the, uh, uh, gosh him? Santa Clara Valley transportation authority, uh, killer. Why would he light his house on fire Like Kehoe lit every one of his possessions on fire? First thing, because I'm not coming back, and the second thing is you don't control my narrative. I control every bit of this narrative and I'm not leaving any artifacts or evidence or witnesses behind that are going to tell you a different story. So I'm so controlling, brian, that I'm going to kill everything. So here's one for you. When Andrew Keough was on his property, he went around with a knife and he cut a band on every tree on his good-sized property. Why did he cut the bark off of every tree? To guarantee that they would die. Now he's a failed farmer, brian, not a good farmer at all.

Speaker 1: 22:25

He only has a couple of livestock.

Speaker 2: 22:27

His wife Nellie. He was getting foreclosed on it. Yes, yeah, but the reason he's getting foreclosed on is because he's not paying his bills, because he's pissed about the, the school board building a new school and taking the taxes. So nelly is his wife, uh, uh, who he uh caves in her head with a coal shovel later that day. What what happens is her sister and an aunt are paying nelly to sloop the money to keo so he can pay the bills, and he he's not. He's refusing to because he doesn't think that he's got it. Now the bank is floor-closing, so he's pissed at the bank. The crops aren't growing, so he's pissed at the crops. The cows aren't giving milk, so he's pissed at the cows. He ends up taking what little livestock he's got left, lock them in the barn and burning it to the ground.

Speaker 2: 23:09

So there, that's what he's saying, brian. What he's saying is so there, but he started this years earlier, he started this months earlier, and you know what? Nobody put together those breadcrumbs and said they're leading to this gosh damn cottage. And, and that's what we need to do. We need to take a look at it and and it was significant at certain points. But don't look for everything to be significant. Like, well, you're checking on something.

Speaker 1: 23:36

You got to check little things and then see if that pattern Well, you brought, you brought up one that we see in a lot of these different cases and you said controlling the narrative, and so I want to I want to kind of jump into that for a second, but I want to give sort of a benign example of that. Like, right now it's, you know, well, it seems like it's always election season somewhere and constantly getting barred about politics, but like that's a great example of how people will control the narrative, meaning all right, we're going to go have this speech. We want these specific signs, these specific people, because we want this image and this specific message to get across. It's not unlike marketing, you know certain companies and brands. We want to control the narrative of the story for a specific purpose. So the politician they obviously want to get elected. They want that simple message to get to you, greg. So you go yeah, I like that and I'm going to vote for you. Or or, hey, I will buy this product. That's a great message. So we talk about controlling them and that could be, you know, the priest giving the sermon at Sunday service. Right, they're, they're, they're telling this story with a specific outcome. To control that message. Right, for an intent. Now, it's not a nefarious or bad one or whatever, but it's just too. It's it's for a reason. So if I look at things like that as controlling the narrative, but now I flip it over to to a different situation, I can go is this person attempting to control the narrative? Will someone lie in questioning to control the narrative and then kill a witness to a crime to control the narrative? You get what I'm saying If I, if I put it as one of those, one of those elements to look at is like are they trying?

Speaker 1: 25:12

What are they trying? What steps have they taken to control this narrative and make sure it's laser focused? Because one that showed that demonstrates intent. Right, they demonstrate some, some knowledge of what's happening. Right, there's, they're doing it for a specific purpose and it shows a level, some level of organization, meaning okay, now they're starting to rise. So now I'm starting to see these different elements. There's some demonstrations of intent, there's levels of organization. What do they have access to? You know what I mean. Now I start to put these elements together that we talk about on the show and then we talk about it and we train people on the class. But that's how I lay out these elements. Then, after I have this, then maybe I can go well, what else is going on with this person? Like, are they typically irrational and overreact to things? Do they typically have these things Like? Now I can put all that stuff in that that maybe I know about? You get what I'm saying. It's just another thing to look at.

Speaker 2: 26:04

Yeah, and so let's not forget where intent falls, and that motive is less important than intent. Why is that important? So I'll give you a personal story and I'm going to do myself ugly. So the first day of school, I was born and raised in Detroit Most folks that listen to us know that and I was very, very proud of that.

Speaker 2: 26:20

And so my mom is German, my aunt is German. We only spoke German around the house. My dad used to beat my mom and my aunt because they spoke German around the house, because you know he was born in Schitt's Creek, tennessee, and that's not the way things were. You know, sorry for the folks in Schitt's Creek because it smelled like sulfur, but when I went to my first day of school, my mom dressed me in hard shoes and short wool socks and lederhosen and a Tyrolean hat with a feather and I had to carry this horn, and inside the horn were all kind of treats and candies and a stapler and a marker and all the stuff that I would need in school. So I was so excited about the first day of school until I got to school.

Speaker 2: 27:03

Okay, and this is kindergarten right, which which is two German words put together kindergarten, okay, and I walk in and there's not a kid in that school that looks anything like me. So I freely pissed my pants, brian, I did not want to be there. I got physically ill, I, I urinated all the way, and you know what wet leather is like? You do, uh, not. A lot of people would know. Uh, rubber and leather brian's. Well, uh, could, we can see it's considered as me. And so I left school and it was traumatic.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Well, in detroit there was a lot of different, of different ethnic groups that were part of the school that I went to, and one of the kids that I met on that first day that was consoling me was a kid named Adolf Santini. Now, imagine, you know, being in the 60s and having your name as Adolf. Now, adolf Santini and the rest of his family only spoke Italian around the house and Adolf spoke broken Italian and he ultimately changed his name, obviously. But what happened is we saw each other, probably in fifth or sixth grade after that incident. That was busing going on, and now we're back in the same school and some kid comes up to me and goes hey, weren't you the German kid that in kindergarten pissed your pants and had to run out of school, and I go. No, that was Adolf, adolf Santini, and I go who else would that be?

Speaker 2: 28:21

And so I did this kid ugly Brian. What I did is I manipulated the story. So I wasn't the foil, I wasn't the victim of the story and I threw this kid under the bus and it ruined him. He had to change his name. I, you know, apologize years later when we were in high school, and I go it was a shitty thing to do. And he's like, yeah, but I would have done the same, you know when you're drowning and somebody in Baywatch comes in to save you, you punch and kick them.

Speaker 2: 28:46

Brian, you're not to see you. So what I mean by that is all of those markers were there with Keough. Keough lost an election that he thought was very important to him. Keough was not paying the school board taxes and, as treasurer said, we shouldn't build a new school. Okay, now you notice how those are starting to stack up. You know, take little sugar cubes or something while you're listening to us at home reading a paper and stack those sugar cubes up.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Ant and his wife's sister bitching in his ear hey, we gave you the money. What are we doing with this money? Farm is failing Every time. He drives home shitty farm. Now he's got an engine. Knock on his car, brian. Now he goes out and guess what? His dog is dead or his PyroTol didn't go off when he tried to do a ditch.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Brian, to you, when you're an injustice collector, when you're looking at everybody's against me, all of those things start adding up fast. And now they matured to the point where he goes okay, you devalued me. You're not listening to me, so I'm going to make something loud enough that you can hear it and I'm going to be remembered. Does he give a shit that he's going to be around? No, as a matter of fact, it's part of his plan. Why? Because that's another way to control the narrative. You go so there, exit stage left, and that blows. That blows because we all want to. You said it earlier, man. We all want to be able to explain that away. Okay, my kid could never do that. My daughter would never drive into a levee and drowned her kids. You know, just after they were born or they were one year old, and I'll tell you this the killing of a significant other before a massacre happens. More than you know, folks, because you're bamboozled by the news.

Speaker 2: 30:31

And I'll give you one that just happened last week. The wife and husband are going through a messy divorce. They're talking about custody. The dad comes over and goes. I want to take the kids to whatever fast food joint. Dad takes them out in the desert, kills both of them and shoots himself in the head. Why? Who wants to control the narrative, brian, do you see what I'm trying to say? Now you've got a situation where that occurs when we're passing the children. Right, I'll meet you in the parking lot, and I know there's a camera in the parking lot, but it's okay, I'm not going to stick around here and get arrested for this, because I'm going to shoot you right in front of the kids. Why? Because I want to control that narrative.

Speaker 2: 31:08

Anytime somebody wants their say and their way, you should be cautious. You should understand that that's a situation where you need to go out to the parking lot, get in your car and go home and, from home, call your boss, from home, call HR, because what's happening is you know, brian, you know what we use. We use this term toxic environment. Okay, that's worse than toxic. Okay, toxic can kill you over time. This is an environment that could kill you today, and Keough is a perfect example about that. What is Andrew Keough? Yeah, he's a farmer. Yeah, he's a school board member. Yeah, he's a husband, but you know what? He's a broken human. Okay, and that's the key.

Speaker 2: 31:44

He was not responding to external stimulus the same way normal people would. When a problem came up, he didn't deal with it in a rational, sane, sober manner. Uh, and when?

Speaker 2: 31:57

he came off the rail. He came off so far that they uh had to destroy the train station and start over. That's important. Do you understand that? He used so much pyrotol and he used it so well that the uh military stopped using pyrotol because of this incident? Wow, that's pretty gosh, damn significant. You know, we don't think. I still, to this day, remember looking at that and running my finger over that granite monument where it said 45 dead and it talked about that. You know almost you know 38, whatever number was were kids To me, even to this day. That just blows me away. And that we've forgotten it unless we live close to it, that's the other thing. Right, because these patterns repeat themselves over and, over and over and we have to look back and go 100 years 97 in this instance, uh is still important. Look, there was a guy that showed up at the city council meeting and, with spray paint, drew the big v and then circled it on the wall before he started shooting Remember?

Speaker 2: 32:55

Okay, we used to talk about that in school. And the problem was that he didn't shoot enough people and he was killed during it. So now we had to change to some other incident. But during that incident, you know what everybody did when he went up and did that V. You remember they sat there and watched Brian because nobody could put together that this was a preceding event to a violent event.

Speaker 1: 33:15

This wasn't just saying something, he was going to say it and then he was going to show you, he was going to act it out for everybody there and that's no, and this is, and this is why, um, this is why we, we keep missing all this stuff, because, one, it's bad analysis or unhelpful, or or information that is really helps us in no manner. And and two, it's it's the school board meeting, and and because you know that's powerful, because you know there's organizations that go around different, like school board meetings in these different towns and they're trying to push their agenda or whatever it is. It's like they're not even from there. They don't even have kids in that school, so they're not taxpayers in that local area where their money goes to that school. I understand you don't have kids in the school anymore, greg, but you pay taxes in Gunnison County and it goes to that school. So you're part of the community. You have a say in what goes on in that community. You're supposed to. That's how it works.

Speaker 1: 34:12

But the the idea is, you know these are things that that you people have other intentions in mind or they have other things going on, and you're walking into these situations and then people, why? I never really thought that would happen. I mean, you just brought up the ones with the kids and the custody. That's why we talk about parking lots all the time it's like, yeah, you're in there going shopping with your family and there's a custody dispute going on over there, there's a dope deal going on over there, there's, you know, someone ripping a car over there.

Speaker 1: 34:39

It's like this is where these things have to happen and we focus on all of these other factors that don't matter or are insignificant or are only, you know, there for story after the fact, to help you feel better about the situation. Yes, right, and this is why there's so many different, like the video breakdown stuff you see on everything that happens. It's, it's, it's not to. Most of those are completely unhelpful and are terrible. I agree, no matter what the situation is. But what do they do? They make you feel better about it, because now I watch it and go, oh, okay, okay, now I get it.

Speaker 2: 35:13

I wouldn't have done that Right. My brother wouldn't have done that Exactly.

Speaker 1: 35:17

Like fucking junk, it's, it's, it's terrible. And so this is why we and this is also why we use different cases like this, Cause they're typically unheard of. And then people are like it's, when you lay it all out, it's, it's, it's so seemingly obvious. So sometimes then people go, oh well, if I see that, then I'll know. It's like well, no, you can't look for those exact elements. You don't find the person in your community that's behind. How it works. It's a coalescing of a series of contributing factors and events. He put into this was significant so much that, even when it happened, everyone investigating was like there's no way one person could have done this. They were almost like this couldn't have been one guy. He had a backup plan to leak gasoline out so the fumes would come through and start a spark. This guy, he wanted everybody to die. He really did. Yeah, to leak, you know, uh, gasoline out so the fumes would come through and start a spark like this guy oh, he wanted everybody to die.

Speaker 2: 36:35

And when he really did yeah, well, you can't.

Speaker 1: 36:38

And the reason why those details are important is because that takes time, that takes a lot of action which means there's leakage and all of that, yes, which means that, and especially now today, there's even more leakage. There's so much going on where you can't not give yourself away, in a sense, you know. So it's that those elements are the ones we focus in on.

Speaker 2: 37:04

Yeah, so let's compare the sign. He didn't put the sign up and then drive in. Okay, he put the sign up while he was still going there nightly to build the bombs. Right, the sign is the 1927 version of social media. He dropped a TikTok out in front of his house.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Now, if you would have driven around Bath Township tiny Bath Township you would have seen a bunch of signs Praise God, the Osbournes live here those type of signs, but you wouldn't have seen that sign and just his use of the term criminal. That's important because that signals something what, what happened that made his mind change to the fact that he was being persecuted? Okay, and and how that manifests itself into this man that is seemingly losing everything, when he doesn't understand. If he would have spent as much time he spent on that sign on his ranch, he probably his farm wouldn't have been in foreclosure. But that doesn't matter, yeah, so, just like it doesn't matter to trainers and this is a shout out to all the trainers that might be listening to me look, I don't know anything. I'm good at one thing in my entire life. I blow at everything else. But I'll tell you this, I will challenge you that every time I up at your training.

Speaker 2: 38:17

You're doing training for an armed home invasion and you've recreated the front door in the living room and where to hide the guns and done all this other stuff. You're much more likely to get taken off when you stop at a local gas station. You're much more likely to encounter that. Well, are we training for that? There was a video that was circulating a week ago Brian, with the big guy in the domestic. He was huge, he was my size but even more endomorphic and Copper was asking do you have a gun? And the guy said, yeah, I got a gun. And he came out with two guns and started shooting out in front of the motel in the parking lot. Well, why is that important? Because we go to motels a lot. Okay, that's where we stay. And when you stay at a motel with your kids on the way to Disney, because it's a long drive from Michigan, okay, you could encounter that. Are you prepped for that? Did you create a rally point for your family in case? What if the police are knocking on the door late at night and emptying that building? Okay, you got a grab bag, a go bag, to take with you, because it may be hours or days before you get back to your gear, brian. These are the things that we should be thinking of.

Speaker 2: 39:24

And when we're sitting in that school board meeting and we hear again the toxic environment, when we hear somebody repeating those veiled threats, ok, is the person bipolar? Or is this person meaning to carry out these attacks? He had unlimited access to the school and the superintendent's building and all the other buildings, and that was borne out by him going there at night and guess what? It was kind of in the middle of nowhere. It was not a big built-up city, so we had that. Well, then we compare that to Beslan and we look at the Beslan. What are the things? Well, first of all, I got to do it on the first day of school, and the first day of school or last day of school are notorious for patterns. Why? Because everybody's there. Brian's famous to say about the Boston massacre yeah the marathon bombing.

Speaker 2: 40:13

Brian says in class a lot of the times hey, if you're planning on doing that, you got one chance at it, because the marathon comes that one time a year. Well, that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about what's going to give me the highest return on my investment. All of those people got it because if Kehoe would have decided, brian, I'm going to kill all those little kids one at a time. I'm going to go around and kill those 45 people individually while they're at lunch or in town. It doesn't work, the same does it.

Speaker 2: 40:39

And why did he use an explosive One? He was familiar with explosives. They were cheap and they proliferated everywhere because ranchers and farmers used them all the time. That's not unlike now with guns. Guns are easy to find, right Parents don't lock them up or I can buy one off the street. So those comparisons as we're going down through those should be tick marks.

Speaker 2: 41:01

And again, don't ever be paranoid, because it's unlikely that any of these incidents are going to happen to you, but there's a similarity in all instances and incidents. Even if it's a natural disaster, brian, even if it's a gosh damn hurricane or a tornado, you should have certain elements built in. Where's our rally point? Where's my emergency med kit for me? Where is it for the family? Do we have fresh water? I remember being a kid and dad showing me how to drain the water out of the water tank in case we had an emergency. So we had a few gallons that we could drink there and it was the shittiest looking iron filled water in the world and dad made us each drink some. So we understood hey, you know it's going to taste horrible, but you can drink it. I think about the level that my dad went through just to show us what happens in an emergency, that we could survive. Hey, do you remember filling the big old bathtub before a big storm came Because we might be out of water? People don't do that. I don't think that people do that anymore because we audit a lot of training and I don't see it.

Speaker 2: 42:01

And this resilience training without a plan is just good thinking. I mean, it's just wishful thinking is the word I'm searching for. It's good, but it's not going to save you in an emergency, brian. I mean you have to no shit be looking for an Andrew Kehoe, and Andrew Kehoe will appear. What you do is you don't manifest that you look for artifacts and evidence that would lend a reasonable person to believe that this person is going off the deep end. Nobody thought the fire at the guy's house in Santa Clara and then he drove to work. Nobody put that together. You know how odd that is, that as he's leaving, his house is on fire and instead of going to the neighbor's house or going to the fire department he goes to work. Should have seen that one coming, and that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2: 42:50

You're getting hit so many times with the left. You miss the right in the boxing match. That's going to knock you on your ass. So that's what you've got to think of. I have a simple plan. Today I'm going to stop for lunch at name one, taco Bell. They just ended Taco Bell's reign in Gunnison. It's so sad. No fast food here, and so what am I going to do if the parking lot's full? Where am I going to park? What am I going to do if somebody needs a Heimlich? Which exit will I use if somebody comes and shoot Brian? Those are the simplest, lowest caloric intervention motivations that we can have for planning, and we never think of them.

Speaker 1: 43:24

I like using cases like this or people like this as sort of a comparison. Right, we use different folks and we use different names, sometimes to refer an archetype, a character. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:39

Right, kehoe is one, but it could be. It could, like you said, it could be Whitman, it could be whatever you know, and that's why I like this. It's like you're at the school board meeting and you're going, hey, is this Andrew Kehoe? Am I talking to Andrew Kehoe right now? Right, and, and those comparisons are great because you, it's sort of, if you understand everything we've been talking about, then it's easier for you because everything's a comparison anyway. Every observation you make, every sense you have, whether you're hot, cold, whatever, it's a comparison to some known for yourself. Everything. That's how your brain processes information this sort of correct, you know model, a correct archetype, a correct character of file folder to from which to compare to. It's it's going to be easier for me to determine whether it is the most likely or most dangerous course of action, whether it is someone that I do need to do a watch or report or whatever. And that's that's the big thing. And it always, you know, starts with that. Like you know people are.

Speaker 1: 44:40

I kind of had a funny feeling about that person, right, right, we've talked about that on another episode. It's like, okay, now, now I have these sort of characters, I have my playing cards, I can. I can hold up as a comparison to go, wait a minute. Is this guy pissed off because he's a taxpaying member of society and he lives in this community and he has every right to speak his mind? Or is this Andrew Kehoe? Is this kid having issues because they're a teenager and they're confused and they have a shitty home life like so many people in the country do, and it's just a natural time? Or is this Nicholas Cruz? Like what? What am I? What am I looking at here? Who, which one is it? Who, who, who am I dealing with? And when? I when?

Speaker 1: 45:22

I kind of hold those up in the clear light with, with the gift of time and distance, you know, like we're doing right now um, it's, it's, it makes it, it makes it much easier. It's, it's this, you know. Is this person? You know, just going through lock is tough and man divorces and co-parenting is really stressful and it's difficult and their schedules and this, or is it Watts from Utah or whatever, that killed his family? Which one is it? I mean, that's a great one too, and we talked about it on podcast before, because the police are at the neighbor's house you can watch the body worn camera and they're looking at his security camera from the night before it's in Denver.

Speaker 1: 46:02

They didn't even know what happened yet. And the guy's sitting there going like his neighbor's, like hey, he's acting really weird.

Speaker 1: 46:08

man Like yes this is so glaringly obvious what's going on right here. But those are good. This is why we use case studies like this. It's as a comparison, to draw out the details. So now, going forward, I can look at do I see these similar steps in this case? Okay, yes, all right. Now I definitely need to focus on and find more. Okay, no, all right. Well, why not? No-transcript individual's life, because each, each one on their own, is completely nothing. But but when, when, coming together, and now you've got the first or last day of school coming up, you know, okay, this is the time where, where everything is adding up right here and, and you know, it's not that hard Um, it's, it's really not, but you know but with a little training it becomes much easier.

Speaker 1: 47:33

Well, of course, Um, and even doing it, doing it simply like I do. You know that I feel horrible for the insurgent sometimes, but it's like, okay, when, if I'm outside doing something, when she walks home from school, like if she goes straight in and just whatever we you know she goes in to get a snack or whatever, then then it's, it's fine. But if she comes up and is like, oh, hey, you doing, okay, she wants to talk about something, right, because either something happened or whatever. It's either good or bad, but she wants to talk about something because I know she's typically hungry at the end of the day and wants to go in and have her after school snack. So if she doesn't do that, it's for a reason.

Speaker 1: 48:12

So I can then go all right, well, what's on her mind? Right, I can, I can figure that out, because it's different and you know where those those little subtle, you know, and the reason why I always bring up stuff like that with family and something close by, is because one I've got, I've got this lab that I can be in every day, right, that I can compare to and I can live in that and and it and it makes me hone those sort of observations so that you can then use that with people you don't know or have never met, or you know what I'm saying. Like it's just as much about developing yourself in your own personal life and seeing that to then use it externally in situations where you're not comfortable, you don't know anyone or this is seemingly new.

Speaker 2: 48:58

It's how do I compare this against some known and I think your comparison, the comparison analogy, Brian, is so huge. I want to make sure that we touch on why and I'll give you an example of that If you're being carjacked and the person wants you to remain in the car, that's a bad idea the person wants you to remain in the car.

Speaker 2: 49:20

That's a bad idea. Uh, if the person is trying to kidnap you, take you with you out of the, take you with them out of the store. That's a bad idea. That's not going to end. Well, I'll tell you right now. Uh, and I'd be willing to testify to that fact as well. Why is that important? I've sat through shitty training for 50 years and, and some of that training, Brian, uh, you, Brian, was in martial arts, some in cop work, some in the military, and the one that I've seen more often than not is people in Vulcan Beslan. I brought it up earlier. Why 2004 siege? There's so many things written. There's videos, there's news stories and everything else about it. Brian, first day of school. Oh, that's important. You just said that. That's something that I think is important. You had 32 hostage takers and a thousand people that were at the school. Why is that important? Well, if you were thinking that on this day there might be something happening, how many? 30 people barreling?

Speaker 2: 50:11

out of the vehicle. Do you get what I'm trying to say? The, the, the uh, uh history of Shamil Beseev, them, listening to Ramstein Ich will on the way in jamming it up and doing all those other stuff. Brian, I've heard it taken from every other angle, but I can tell you this when 30 armed people bail out of a thing and you're in a school, you got to leave because if you're going to become a hostage, then you're a pawn and things aren't going to go well. And so I hear people saying stuff in this training and they're saying, well, at this point, with the you know M9 and the you know AKM, that they had the thing in the day three, shit day three. Ok, you've got to do something right up front and you've got to make a big, sudden, violent change in the situation, or or it's going to be in the same way. 334 people die, half of them are children, more than half right.

Speaker 1: 51:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:05

And you look at the situation and people are talking about ballistics and people are talking about the type of pigtail splice days. Brian, I'm telling you that what you do with your daughter, the stuff that you do at home, the talk around the kitchen table, even if you're going out to eat that night with your family going hey, in case something would have happened here this is what we should do next. Those type of things are priceless. And getting a little Motorola walkabout for your kids, you know, and people go yeah, they got a cell phone. Yeah, I get it, you know. What I'm trying to say is where's your pace plan? Those things that you're talking about are simple interventions, brian, that make us smarter, safer, stronger and harder to kill, and that's where we should be putting our calories and our money, because we're not, and as a society, these things keep coming up and it's good reading.

Speaker 2: 51:52

The Beslan. School Siege is a great thing to brief on because there's so much information, but how does it make me smarter? School siege is a great thing to brief on because there's so much information, but how does it make me smarter, other than the facts that there's comparisons I can make to other events the first day of school the last day of school. I don't get any smarter. You get what I mean At the end of the day. Knowing more about the, it doesn't fucking make me safer, yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:12

Well, it's, it's the how to it's. Here's all the things they did wrong when this incident occurred so we don't want to do those things wrong.

Speaker 2: 52:23

If that those specific things in that order.

Speaker 1: 52:24

Think about, but think about what you're saying right there it's like okay, it's the same thing, even with with you've all day, here's everything that went wrong with the response, so we need to fix all that. It's like that's where we're going to focus our efforts, on everything that happened after the fact. So what you're you, what you're implicitly saying, there is that, okay, this is going to happen again. We're accepting that. We're accepting that and we're going to get better at responding. Right, what do you? We're not, we're not even, we're not even thinking about any anything else here. We're just saying this is a response to it. I mean, and I, I get that, you, you, you you have to have that, but but no, you don't, you don't have to have a specific response to every single specific situation that's going to occur, because they don't repeat what could be this big come on that. And there is no, what they, they there, there are no two incidents like that, that's just three other factors. It's like I don't know, and I, I, this, the kehoe one is a great one, I agree, because it's uh, you know it's almost 100 years old, it's 97, it's years ago around this time, and you know it's what. What have we done in the last 97 years since that that has improved or made it better? And and I I don't know. I don't that and I don't know if there's a lot of evidence to support that things are any better in the way we handle these things or the way we certainly not prevent them.

Speaker 1: 53:51

And it's another one that highlights how important people's actions are, and not just what they say, but more what they do. And I mean that's the thing is that you have to take steps in order to do anything. So what steps are you taking? And you know, you and I are obviously behaviorists, and I believe that you know who you are. Is is not what you say and what you were, it's what you do. You know who you are is is not what you say and what you were, it's what you do. What you actually do is you. That's who you are. Now you can change that. It's tough, but but with the things that you do, not the things that you say or the things that you know, you you talk about or think about or feel you know, none of that fucking matters. It's what do you do, do what are the actual things that you do every single day. That's who you are as a person.

Speaker 1: 54:45

That's it exactly that's your legacy, exactly if you want to work on that or change that, or you know that, that's fine, you can right the people can. It's difficult, but the idea is that if you want to get a clear picture of someone, it's what do they do, what steps do they take, right? And and if they're, it's the old yellow pad with a line down the center saying you know, if you want to understand someone, you sure write down everything they said on the left side, but then, on the right side, write down everything they said on the left side, but then on the right side, write down what they actually did. And if there's, if there's a disconnect there, if there's some dissonance, if there's something that isn't adding up, well, there you go. You're seeing an incongruent signal and there's a reason for that. There's a reason. There's an incongruent signal. So I mean, these things aren't, they're they're not hard to see. These things aren't, they're not hard to see. And we, like I said, we oversimplify them for a reason it's to get it repetitive and to see those common elements across each thing to go. Am I seeing that here?

Speaker 1: 55:49

In this situation that I'm in, I now have a good comparison. Kehoe's a great one, and now I have a model, I have a character. That's why every movie character, every every hit movie, they're all the same. There's only so many different things that there's. There's the heroes, narrative, there's, you know, there's all of these different you. It's the same character over and over again. Now it's the divorced cop who's really good at his job but always getting you know, drinking and getting in trouble at work all the time.

Speaker 1: 56:20

He's cracking big cases. There's been 30 000 fucking movies. Why? Because there's only so many characters out there, and so it's the. It's the same thing, or I'm the loner who doesn't want to do anything, and then you know whatever he's got a heart of gold, brian.

Speaker 2: 56:37

Yeah, good, good person.

Speaker 1: 56:38

He means well, it's like shut up. No, no, it's not real.

Speaker 2: 56:43

What Brian is broadcasting to you folks, and which you've got to be writing down and listening to, is Brian is ringing the bell, for most people want their say, very few people want their way, and whenever anybody wants their say and their way in the same incident, you should perk your ears up. Gosh. Sam Cassidy at Santa Clara Valley Transport he wanted to stay in his way. Shamil Basayev with the Chechens he wanted to stay in his way. When we take a look back at Andrew Kehoe, he wanted to stay in his way. And you know what I'll add this. And, folks, you know that I love fishing in all its manners. What we do is kind of like fishing the pattern recognition and then the analysis. If you're fishing in stained water, you got to change the color of your lure because the fish can't see it, and if you can't see.

Speaker 2: 57:36

Even worse, with that stained water you got to add an element of sound to your lure so the fish can find it and strike at it. So those mean that we take artifacts and evidence and modify our search criterion. And not one of those says look for the fish's motive, because a fucking fish doesn't know it's raining, the fish doesn't know all those other things. So what we got to do is we got to create a lane in our mind and say these things logically fit the scenario that I'm in. These things don't. Not only are they unorthodox, they're unexpected, they're anomalous to the situation that I'm finding myself in.

Speaker 2: 58:10

And now, all of a sudden, I got this person broadcasting that I want my say in my way, Brian, we just switched from ML most likely course of action to MD and danger is nigh. It's not rocket science, but it's certainly science and it's certainly something we can do with repetition and with training and with a little bit of guidance. And this incident is the perfect one to deep dive, Like you said 97 years old, happened over Mother's Day weekend, just this last weekend, from when we're recording, and it's one that you can read in an hour and do a bunch of on-duty roll calls or a bunch of you know hip pocket training. We used to call it in the Army. It's just a beautiful case to discuss.

Speaker 1: 58:57

Yeah, we kind of covered a lot and gave some things hopefully some tangible things to look for. But the overall story of this is what's important, not the type of detonation device he used and how he studied engineering and was an electrician. I mean, that's not that. That's just why he chose that route, or chose that because it was something he was familiar with. Same thing if I don't have any of those skills, but I've been, you know, around. I've been shooting guns my whole life Like, well, okay, I'm going to go. Well, I know that this is something I know. Oh shit, I've been going to this school now for a long time. This is a place I know. This is where these things are going to come out.

Speaker 1: 59:41

That's actually goes back to the quote where people overuse or misuse, where it says you know, you don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your training. Training doesn't have to be something formalized, you just fall back to what you know, and human beings are lazy. No-transcript. My wife is now sick or whatever with the issue was going on with Keogh. Well, now this is happening. Well, when those, when that weight starts to get added, where I'm going to fall back on what I know, and so this is such a great example of of of all of that and everything we talked about in here, so I'll kind of go to you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

I would throw one more line, brian. I would throw one more thing in, and everything Brian said was absolutely valid. And get out your yellow pad. I would add this grab a map, take a look at it. You can do that very simply on your phone right now and you'll notice where Bath Township is. It's less than an hour and a half from the center of Detroit. So notice where Bath Township is. It's less than an hour and a half from the center of Detroit. So there's a lot of suburbs out there and there were back then. It's minutes from Lansing, michigan. Both places had huge numbers of victims available and Kehoe did not choose them. He chose home, burnt his place down to the ground, drove out and attacked the school he was most familiar with. Brian. There's a lesson there. You got to think that way. If you think that way you pay attention to the parking lot man you're going to be further ahead.

Speaker 1: 1:01:25

Yeah, no, I agree, that's the important. Um, what you know, when people ask why, like well, this is why it's not about their, their motive, it's this is, you know, everyone, cause these people do one of the why did they choose me, or why did they choose a spot, or why did they do this, it's like, well, this is why this is what they know, this is how all humans are. They're going to go with what they know, and and that's that's, that's the real why. But, um, okay, that's uh kind of If you enjoy it, please share it with your friends.

Speaker 1: 1:01:52

Thanks a lot, and don't forget that training changes behavior.