The Human Behavior Podcast
Do you ever wonder why people act the way that they do? Join human behavior experts Brian Marren and Greg Williams as they discuss all things human behavior related. Their goal is to increase your Advanced Critical Thinking ability through a better understanding of HBPR&A (Human Behavior Pattern Recognition & Analysis.) What is HBPR&A? It's a scientific (and fun) way to understand and articulate human behavior cues so that you can predict likely outcomes and it works regardless of your race, religion, political ideology or culture!
The Human Behavior Podcast
Our Need For Social Validation
Historically, in-person communal gatherings met our needs for social validation and even stress relief. But today, those needs are met through rapid online interactions that fail to provide many of the important elements that are necessary for appropriate feedback. In this week’s episode we are using the assassination attempt on Donald Trump to unpack the psychological and sociological imperatives that drive UNINFORMED commentary.
During the episode we combine the science of human behavior and our experience in military, law enforcement, and protection work to dissect the pitfalls of initial reports and the unreliability of eyewitness testimonies. We then transition into the intricate dynamics of human behavior, particularly in the realm of social media to highlight how reduced consequences in online exchanges impact societal norms and individual conduct. We also examine the addictive nature of social media, driven by dopamine effects and immediate validation, and discuss strategies for maintaining a balanced perspective.
Lastly, we touch on the implications of misinformation and the importance of critical thinking. From exploring the need for evidence-based claims to managing negative interactions on social media, we stress the necessity of objectivity and accountability. Join us for this deep dive into the complexities of human behavior, social relevance, and the digital age. This episode encourages listeners to approach information more thoughtfully, deliberately, and responsibly.
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. Historically, in-person communal gatherings met our needs for social validation and even stress relief, but today those needs are met through rapid online interactions that fail to provide many of the important elements that are necessary for appropriate feedback. In this week's episode, we are using the assassination attempt on Donald Trump to unpack the psychological and sociological imperatives that drive uninformed commentary. To unpack the psychological and sociological imperatives that drive uninformed commentary. During the episode, we combine the science of human behavior and our experience in military, law enforcement and protection work to dissect the pitfalls of initial reports and the unreliability of eyewitness testimonies. We then transition to the intricate dynamics of human behavior, particularly in the realm of social media, to highlight how reduced consequences in online exchanges impact societal norms and individual conduct. We also examine the addictive nature of social media, driven by dopamine effects and immediate validation, and discuss strategies for maintaining a balanced perspective. Lastly, we touch on the implications of misinformation and the importance of critical thinking. From exploring the need for evidence-based claims to managing negative interactions on social media, we stress the necessity of objectivity and accountability. Join us for this deep dive into the complexities of human behavior, social relevance and the digital age.
Speaker 1:This episode encourages listeners to approach information more thoughtfully, deliberately and responsibly. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the episode, and please check out our Patreon channel, where we have a lot more content as well as subscriber only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave this review and, more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don't forget that training changes behavior. All right, well, good morning Greg, and hello to everyone listening. This is going to be hopefully a fun, interesting episode and hopefully I get some some questions answered. This time it's like I would say I'm fired up and greg is doing the brian mellow.
Speaker 2:I'm wondering what's going on. I just don't want it to be a mega episode, you know yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So so here's, here's the thing. So we're just actually just for for the listeners. We're recording this on July 18th, so recently. Over the past weekend, some major events occurred that has been the topic of the week, and of course, I'm talking about the death of Richard Simmons and so we're going to jump into that. No, obviously we're talking about the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, and you know the social commentary in a sense, that comes from this.
Speaker 1:And now this happens with every major event where everyone gets on and they're the expert. All of a sudden they bring up all this stuff and, like it's, it's, it's always just draining to me, um, and I'm sure it is to most people, and most people complain about that and they make fun of those people, but yet we all do it themselves. So what I kind of wanted to approach with this, greg, is um, I was going to kind of get your take on this on why we as humans do this, because you know there's my idea is that, like everyone say, oh, it's the media, oh, it's social media, oh, it's this, it's like, no, the technology has changed, but people are the same. Like, people are the same as they've always been. So you know when I took a step back from all this, from listening to all this nonsense. You know, because, just for some of the listeners who don't know too, like this is one of those contexts where one I was a sniper in the Marine Corps. I did a lot of protection work, high threat protection for different government officials and agencies all over the world as a well then, you call it designated defensive marksman or counter sniper team, and so, like I have direct knowledge of tactics, techniques, procedures, how this stuff works, and you have experience in this field, in this situation, as do you, greg, in other realms, not as a sniper but but doing even presidential details with different protective stuff. So so, like if there was something that came up that I could speak to, it would sort of be on the subject. But you know why I don't is because I wasn't fucking there. So I can speak to my experience and typical things that are supposed to happen, but I can't tell you anything about what happened on the ground. And you know when these things occur.
Speaker 1:It's like I see people with the supposed vast experience commenting on stuff, but like, if you have experience, you know that the initial reports of something that's happening or what? They're always fucking terrible and mostly wrong. You know that there's a lot of stuff that comes out that ends up not being oh, that was something someone said and it got to the news and then they spread that right. There's a lot of really really bad information and it's actually done in a manner that people are trying really hard to get out the information that's necessary, right, and you flood the net and then no one knows what is what and what's real and what actually happened. There's other things I noticed, like eyewitness testimony were terrible.
Speaker 1:People even when you're trying really really hard to recall the events and be honest, like you don't have a clear view of things. So when people come on and start commenting on this stuff, it's like it's sort of infuriating me. It's like you're just adding nonsense out there or even if they bring up a good point, like their overall way of approach and theoretical base for this stuff is just either non-existent or they don't even know, and so it's sort of frustrating and interesting to me and so I didn't want to. I'm not. This isn't going to be like sort of a bash on those people thing.
Speaker 1:I actually take it from a completely different perspective because you know I still go to other people for advice, like I like yes, I was a sniper in this role, but like I haven't been in that world in a long time, so when people will come to me with questions about that stuff, or like a rifle or a new scope or something like that, I'll be like, hey, hit up my buddy, so-and-so, or here, take this guy's number and ask him all the questions, cause he's on top of this stuff.
Speaker 1:Dude, I've been out of that world for so long and so, but either way, the point and the topic sort of today is is why is us, as humans, why do we do this? And and you know, like I said, this has to be something that's been around longer than than Instagram and a 24 hour news network right that this is ingrained in human beings. So I wanted to go to you, not just because, like your expertise on human behavior and explaining this, um, but also because you're you're you're not really on social media, you're you're on LinkedIn and, like you know, functionally, you don't understand it at all how it all works.
Speaker 2:I've been at it for 13 years and I still learn it.
Speaker 1:But you do understand the concept.
Speaker 1:Because like yeah, well, and even you know, when I explained, you asked me about Instagram a long time ago and what I said was like, because what you know, if you're listening, what Greg used to do a lot when we had a lot of folks was, you know, you put together like a PowerPoint.
Speaker 1:It may be one photo, it may be five photos and then an explanation of hey, here's what I saw, here's some photos from the parking lot. This is why this is important and you just call them instructor development, right, to keep people fresh, give a new perspective, or or it could be a case that's happening Like, hey, take a look at these elements of the case, because that's important and relevant to what you're teaching this week, or something Right. And and so I explained to him, he was like that's basically Instagram, just with a different motive. People are just sharing parts of their life, with a bunch of different photos and an explanation of what that is, and it's like, oh, okay, so different, different intent, different motive behind it, like you're doing this as a teaching. They're just doing this, you're sharing your life experiences, stuff. So so you actually do understand this stuff as a medium, just in a in a different perspective, which is why I want to get your opinion on some of this stuff.
Speaker 1:So we'll get into a few areas, but but the big one I want to know is is you know, what is it about humans that we feel the need to to speak up and say something? Because I think there's a lot more behind that than people realize.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and I think we're going to have to take it in pieces and parts I think we need to go yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we're going to have to take it in pieces and parts.
Speaker 2:I think we need to go back and bring some of them. No, no, I love the intro because we get to meet angry, angry Brian.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't know there's that side of you hungry, hungry, and when they see it, and the greatest thing in the world is, you're not angry because somebody didn't come to you to speak on CNN, you're not angry, you know. And coming back and saying a minute of angle, you don't know the millimeter of. You know descent and the Coriolis. That's all horseshit. What it is is we like to talk about things that we can think can improve human behavior, or we talk about limits of human performance, again with the understanding that we want an output, and the output is that you become better at being able to see things. So, you know, I always like to start with historical perspective. Okay, java's, it's okay, she saw a horse or a chipmunk, so she'll be fine a minute. Or Dog, and yeah, java, so she doesn't bark, she just ran by, run by, shouting yeah.
Speaker 2:So the first perception is remember our need to be a part of a tribe or a clan. So social media meets that need. And we're not going to talk all about social media, but let's talk a minute about it. Our brains are wired for connections with other humans and bad things always happen when we interrupt that cycle. So antisocial is not the same thing as wanting or needing to be alone. I know a lot of people that are I would classify as loners, that live up in Gunnison, colorado, because they like being loners and they're completely successful and they're wonderful humans. Okay, so I would also say, brian, it's very different when you choose to be a loner or when society chooses to leave you alone. So first, if we can understand that now we seek out tribes, we seek out clans, we want to have authentic societal and psychological connections with other humans.
Speaker 2:Guess what? That's no different historical again than my first section is back in the 60s and 70s, our parents, your parents and mine, did what was called happy hour. Now happy hour is taking on a whole new meaning. Now, folks, yeah, look it up. In the 60s and 70s, everybody that lived around Detroit worked for General Motors in one way, shape or form. Before they ever made it home for dinner, they would stop at a club or a bar and they would sit around and have their fancy drinks and they would bullshit. They would talk about politics and they would talk about religion and they would talk about their shitty boss. Not for social validation as much as for a release, for a cathartic moment from a busy day. And that's where we get the smoking and alcohol are bad for us, but that's what we relied on, brian, that was our state mechanism.
Speaker 2:So our social media then was the club Chevelle and Warren and we would stop in and we'd have a couple of drinks and the bar knew it, so they had bar food and they had low drink prices. Drinks and the bar knew it, so they had bar food and they had, you know, low drink prices. And then we would DUI ourselves back home and generally beat up our significant other or kick the dog. I mean there was a lot of bad repercussions from it In our mind.
Speaker 2:what we thought was that we were reducing the stress in our environment and we always got a positive feedback loop because of the dopamine.
Speaker 2:Were there a couple of fistfights now and again Were different things happening. Of course they were, but the idea was that we were in the moment hey, I'm with my tribe mates, look at me, I you know. Hey, go, go to Tim. He's always pissed about something and Tim's like hey, kiss my ass, you didn't go through what I went, and that's exactly what social media fills now. The problem is it's different. Flash to bang is much faster Now. We don't all get into our cars after work and drive to a place. It's not deliberate like that, brian. Now it comes fast and furious. So people feel that need for validation, they feel the need to be heard and they have an outlet now that they've never had before it's, and it's so much quicker and more powerful, far-reaching okay, so so, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So I, I like your analogy there, the happy hour analogy, and, um, so let's say that's what this is and let's say there's a lot of discussion with that. Um, so I, I, the, the technology is obviously different, so one, the, the community is bigger, um, so the amount of people that'll hear it, the, the spread, the reach, like you said, that the, the flash to bang is faster, it's, it's easier. So I don't have to sit there and think about what I want to say.
Speaker 1:I can just I can literally go stream of consciousness on twitter if I really want to, and here's the other part, because you're taking it from a sociological perspective, which is what this probably whole episode really is. But if I get out of line at that bar, someone's going to punch me in the face.
Speaker 1:Yes, because I'm looking through them eye to eye and it's right'm in their presence, right here in person. So so, when I don't have the, the feedback mechanism is very different on social media. Yes, because there's very. There's little to no risk, um, there's little to no actual consequences for what I say or do on there. And then now what's happened, I believe over time is is that's now led to sort of that culture of, well, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:So so and here's here's where we forget that sometimes we all do because the fidelity and the granularity and the sort of production value of a video on Instagram is very different than that gritty. You know, we're having a drink and a smoke and talking to someone at the bar and exchanging ideas. Right, it's very, very different. And so we almost attribute different values to these. Right, we can, we can attribute someone as an expert in something that they're not. Uh, we can, we can look at it, simply because we'll look at the production value and look at what they're saying and doing. We're like in the bar you go shut the f up, dude, you're just using big words. Again, that's.
Speaker 1:Mikey always goes to the thesaurus and tries to sound smart. You know what I mean. Like you, you don't have as much of that and and then I think that sort of adds to this like, hmm, that correction in the bar, right, so if I'm in that community and people know me and I start piping up about something, one person might go like, yeah, yeah, but what? You don't know shit about that area. But then maybe the other, the rest of the group, goes oh, no, uh. Uh, brian's actually been studying that his whole life. I know he works down there at the plant, but you know he goes and you know he's a history buff and collects this or something like that. Right, that that?
Speaker 2:allows. As a matter of fact, he's the most qualified person to talk about that Exactly.
Speaker 1:Well and, and you know, there there's different ways to look at it. Like, I just gave you the my bone a few days at the beginning to how I could uh uh talk on this specific example, but I don't because I stay in my lane of what I do and I don't mean that as a negative to people who do speak of it, because the other thing I see with I think is different on a social media platform than it is in real life. Is you sort of, well, it happens in real life, it just happens at a greater scale on social media is like this sort of character arc of these people and I'll, the group I'll belong to is the one I'll bash, right. So, so you've got these like veteran influencers, right, and maybe they start a company or maybe they get out and they do something. It's really cool, whatever it is. It's a coffee company, it's a t-shirt, it's a this thing, I've got whatever awesome and they get like dude, yeah, whatever it is. And they get like popular and then they get a following and it's like, hey, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:And then they there's this character arc that they all fall into and it give your thoughts on Ukraine, like, do you understand? Like that was my original what I wanted to do in life. Like I got a bachelor's in political science and I was looking at all this stuff in DC to go do, and because I really, really enjoyed foreign policy and thought it was intriguing, my life went a different path and I got more interested in what I do now. But the idea was like this is extremely complex topic, like why are we oversimplifying that? And so we have this need to hear it from someone. And I get this because we talk about this in a number of ways. It's just how sociologically we're. We're established with relationships and groups and tribes, and then there's always going to be a leader and there's thought leaders and influencers. That term goes back, you know it was for as long as humans have been around, um, but but is it?
Speaker 1:is it, is it just more prevalent now, or is it just now that we have the ability to see more than than it was? And and what is it again, like I know you're talking about. We need to be heard, we need to be said, but like but why do we what? But then why do I do that in one area and not in the other meaning?
Speaker 1:I'll make fun of you greg say like you're not an expert on covid, but then, when you're giving your theory on this, I go oh yeah, that's, that's awesome. I agree with this, like you see. See how we're so.
Speaker 2:Um, it's like a dichotomous way of looking at this thing so so, like like a sea lion, we're going in and out of the waves, yeah I'm all because we have to know it's okay because again, welcome to angry, angry brian folks yeah, I get love to greg first started when we were driving to the car and he was banging on the dashboard and ranking.
Speaker 1:I love it. I can't get my thoughts out in a coherent manner, which is why I'll never be one of those personality types that have that. Because I can't do that. You know what drives my gears.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing we think we need to unwind or relax or escape, but in actuality we need to socialize, because socialization is an essential form of self-expression. We need to seek validation of others, whether it's a wife or a kid, or a friend or a husband or a significant other. Fill in whatever DEI you want. We also need to be entertained and find like minds for emotional support. That's an essential.
Speaker 2:That's not a thing that we can bargain with or trade off, and social media immediately offers us a safe environment with absolutely zero repercussions, exactly like Brian said, and I would posit that the average user on social media wants to remain connected and share their opinions and give emotional support to other humans, just like on Facebook. But what happened is now they got into a feedback loop of social validation that dumps dopamine and you have also linked back in, not to use their title. But because that scary feeling in the pit of your stomach after being called out or fearing that you're going to be challenged on social media wants me to get back there and see how many more people linked, how many more people looked at me people reading it do I can. I feel vindicated by what I say or do. So it's all a chemical game, but I would ask you to think just for a minute. What kind of total release do you think that thomas thomas crooks felt when he finally hit send on that message he had been working on for weeks?
Speaker 2:yeah and dumps his message on social media and ads for the rally. Okay, that's what we're fighting here, brian. So you have homophily on one side, the tendency for people to seek out or be attracted to those birds of a feather who are similar to themselves right. Then you've got isopraxism is on right on the other side of the coin, and that's brought on by our mirror neurons. We're unconsciously mirroring the behavior of others that we admire or we want to be around, and it just starts to get going. It's not your plan for the long game. It just starts to happen and then, all of a sudden, we're like, hey, wait a minute, let's not fight about this. We're tribe mates and that cohesive nature of cooperation keeps drawing us back.
Speaker 2:I wonder what Jim said about my last post. So have you ever been in a situation where you saw the same post over and over and over on different channels? And it's a guy saving a dog in Indonesia or whatever, and you saw it six months ago and you saw it a year ago, but now they changed the music and they put a flower at the bottom and then they put their own name on it. That's seeking psychological protection and sociological validation, brian, and we know that biologically, the return on investment is that we get a ton of dopamine from those things. So, and when that counter goes up I don't even know if they use counters anymore, but remember in the early days- there was a counter on your site.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh it likes.
Speaker 2:That's a perfect way of describing it. So now what happens, brian, is that, instead of just unwinding and escaping like at happy hour, now we find out that wait a minute, we got a whole bunch of new friends and we're engaged in a whole bunch of new online activities, and my self-esteem even gives me a title. Somebody called me and said, well, would you give an opinion on this Holy shit? And now, guess what? We got one foot in the trap already, don't we? So every time we do it, it reinforces the fact that, uh, this is part of my identity and it's part of who I am. And you said earlier, when you were joking like, oh yeah, you know, chuck, he always reads into that shit that a long time ago, uh, it was slow enough. Like Shakespeare wrote about Falstaff and uh, henry the fourth wrote about hey, let's go have a drink before we go home for dinner and discuss these heavy topics. Right, and I'm paraphrasing Brian, we don't do that now.
Speaker 1:We don't go to dinner and sit around and think this is how we do it now.
Speaker 1:Which is not congruent with how humans are you. So what I'm, what I'm getting from you, is is there certain psychological and sociological underpinnings, that that, that and necessities that that are sort of contributing to why we do this? And then and then the environment and the system and the medium takes over and creates that sort of feedback loop where now I'm doing it so much I don't even realize it. Now it's a couple of that. Couple of that baseline.
Speaker 2:Yes, couple that with the immediacy of social media, the immediacy of information.
Speaker 1:One of the first things humans need feedback, and when you get immediate feedback, it's yeah, we'll take it, even if it's sketchy.
Speaker 2:So they had a microphone in a kid's face that knew Crooks, yeah, and this is what he said. They said can you comment on the shooter? And he said, yeah, you know, I don't know him. I didn't know him in school. He wasn't in my class, but he was bullied and he was a loner, what you know, that's an.
Speaker 1:SEF, that was the. I saw that because he's like well, you know, he got bullied a lot and people said stuff to him and they were like, well, what kind of things would people say to him? What do they call him? Well, I don't really know, I'm not sure, but I know it's like well, wait a minute, you just said you're providing some form of evidence to support your claim and then, when asked on the evidence, you cannot provide it. So now.
Speaker 2:There was a repercussion, though, because the interviewer had the mic in his face and was looking square at him, just like that guy the other day on the news that I told you. That said. Well, he crawled up like an inchworm, like Lee Harvey Oswald. Wait a minute, that didn't occur. You can't conflate facts and truth and historical perspective and come out with an opinion in real life because somebody will call you on it. But on social media, brian, there's that freedom to say what you want. You can give a thumbs down to somebody and change the trajectory of their week, but you'll feel better for the next four hours.
Speaker 1:You get how that works, and I know you do, but I'm hoping that I'm saying that in a manner that the people listening can understand okay, and then I would apply this then, obviously, if not just for someone who goes out there and says something and I'm gonna speak my mind, but then it's then the same for, like, the comment section, right, and there's, there's different types of stuff you'll see in there, um, you know, that's why why, even on our social media, like on, let's say, certain ones you can control, like on our Instagram, you can only comment on our stuff if you're following us.
Speaker 1:And I do that for a specific reason, because your stuff can get out there and people can share it and a lot of people can see it, but then it might pop up in your feed for some other reason, cause Instagram goes oh hey, you're, you have these accounts you follow. Check out this account. All these people follow these. This account too, right?
Speaker 1:So I'm just kind of explaining to you, greg, but like so accounts pop up that you're not even following, right, just like on LinkedIn, when it says, hey, do you want to follow? Or a lot of your followers are following this person, right, and so what I do is you have to actually click follow in order to comment on our post, and I do that as a barrier. I do that to keep out the lowest like common denominator, the lowest one percent of people that just are just assholes looking for a fight right, just say stupid stuff.
Speaker 1:Because it shows that you took the time, like you wanted, to comment so bad on our posts that you took the time to follow us. So you, you have to, you had to take a step in there. So it's demonstrates your intent, right, because most people are going to go. Well, oh, I want, I want to say something. They go only on the followers and like or whatever, and they'll just go on. Right, because it's so. That's who I'm trying to, the riffraff I try to keep out and it's one small barrier, but I would.
Speaker 1:Everything you brought up would apply to that. That comment section. So why would I mean and you've seen them even on LinkedIn the comment section are hilarious If you know a lot about human behavior. Because it's just like oh my God, it's again. It's slapping my forehead, going like what are you talking about? So, so did these sort of same rules apply in there? And then, why is that different? Because you're always going to get someone. That here's what I see One. You're always going to have your classic sniper that's like well, actually you know this, this, this or whatever, Looking for that fracture, that mistake that they can exploit right.
Speaker 1:Then you're going to have someone that says like, oh yeah, um, you know, that's just like something I did, where they they make the post about them. And then there's like people were just like like you, like uh, I know Clark always calls you like he's like I love Greg, he's my biggest hype man. Oh, mckaylee was saying the same things too. He's like the biggest hype man on LinkedIn. Cause you're just like hey, that's awesome, like way to go, or like I support this, or like that's really cool, great job. So like you, and you're always like that with people. But but you know, those are sort of the three different things. So so what, what? What is that there in the comment section? Is that? Is that again? Does that go back to the bar? Does that go?
Speaker 2:back to the happy hour. I got to remember that term and look it up later to feel if I'm going to be insulted. So look, in all of our social contexts, in all of our social contexts, two different things contacts and context. We look for a lack of ambiguity, a lack of anxiety and safety through belonging, first part, and loyalty, second part. Brian, I know I can trust you. I know that you would stand up for me if I wasn't there. I know that if we get into a scrum, you're going to be the first one throwing punches and that helps. That helps me go day to day.
Speaker 2:So what happens is now I'm online and there's a great degree of anonymity. There's almost zero eye contact. I can't read your nonverbal communications. So I have to crush you big. And because I have control over the keyboard, I have control over the narrative, the conversation, and I can tell you how to think. I can tell you how to feel, and that's all. A mirror again back to isopraxism and homophily. Uh, uh, that's my feelings of inadequacy, my lack of control in my own life and other aspects of my life. Okay, that's why I have to. I have a need, a psychological and sociological need, to post hateful comments. Okay, you see, a person like me, brian, you know me, I'm always glasses full. There's a way out of this. It's going to be great. I love the way you turn that around. Okay, but there's other people that I run into that are that it'll never work.
Speaker 2:We're all going to die and that just drains me, brian, and so I have to avoid those people, because what happens is they take my chlorophyll, they take my oxygen and they just use too much of me. So that's why there are two reasons I'm not on social media. It's like jazz I'm afraid of it, I don't understand where it might be going and all of the rules. And the second thing is that you know me, if somebody was being belligerent or mistreating or doing something like that, I couldn't take that. I would have to either fix that person or, you know, I would constantly be sparring with them. And knowing that now, with AI, that many of the comments aren't even generated by the person, you know you're being rude because that fills a hole in you. You're not being rude because you're smarter than me and once we get that, that changes the battle space. So I choose not to be there.
Speaker 1:So how much of this is? Let me sort of preface this like, because you know, you see this sort of different commentary and someone may bring up a good point based on their experience. Right, I could bring up all kinds of different points on this one based on my experience. Like I had people reach out and said like hey, what is going? Like the best questions I got right. Well, yeah, the best questions. Like well, they know, that was my response. Like when people were, hey, did you hear what happened? Blah, blah. I was like I know, man, what a great guy I'm gonna be sweating to the oldies tonight in honor of Richard Simmons and they're like what, that's great, turn it. The best questions I got because people felt that they could reach out to me which I hope they did, and always especially friends, people, I know Some were colleagues, some were, but the best questions I got were for people who had no military, no security, no law enforcement background, because it was like how does this happen? Or what was this, or just if it my thing was like, or like they just wanted my take, and I said you know, this is right.
Speaker 1:After this stuff happened, I go look man, like I don't know anything. I go just from what I'm seeing in what's been reported so far. This sounds like a communications issue. This sounds like a communications issue. This sounds like someone was trying to do something. It didn't make it through. There's signal and noise. All the stuff we talk about there seems in gaps, sometimes too many people you know with well and the other thing is like, well, how come there wasn't this?
Speaker 1:and I was like, well, look, you know, in a security element like this, you always have your overt, you know counter sniper teams out there, that's it. That's a deterrent more than anything. And then you're always going to have like a clandestine or covert team somewhere that's hidden, just like you have plain clothes people in the crowd and you have uniform folks. And you have right, there's, there's this web of how this works. Like well, you just got on this perfect site. I go yeah, they probably set up inside the building because they were like hey, this is a perfect observation point right I'll tell you right now.
Speaker 1:I mean, my buddy had our teams and we were on patrol and like literally comes to me on the radio. It's like, hey, this is a perfect spot for an ambush I'm gonna set up here. And then, guess what, there's a guy fucking waiting there for us who blew himself up on our patrol. So it was like, obviously, multiple people saw this as a great ambush.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying there's only so many, but but I I get what. What I'm getting at is, you know, we always want an explanation and humans always want a simple explanation. We don't like uncertainty. We look for causal relationships and everything right. We look for patterns where they often don't exist, because we're primed as humans for pattern recognition exactly so how much of this is based?
Speaker 1:in fear. And I don't just take this situation in commentary Now, I talk big picture about all of it. Like every time there's a police video shooting or something that comes out, you get the same. We're going to do a video breakdown on this, we're going to break down the body worn camera and all this stuff. And I, you know, I kind of think that it's like a lot of it doesn't have a lot of training value and I'm like, well, what? And I try to really listen to what they're saying and what they're talking about and so there's always like a tactical conversation Well, you should have taken cover here and you're this. And it's like okay, like whatever, um, you weren't there, but that I'm sure that's what you would have done. And and I get that for like some points but like, how much of that is done out of fear? How much of that is where I have to justify or I have to say this is why this occurred.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't have made that mistake, so, uh, I know this won't happen to me. How much of that is just based period out of fear?
Speaker 2:Yep so so I'll answer it two ways, if you'll indulge me. First is hearing people immediately come out and give the loner explanation with the antisocial personality disorder. First of all, stop, you have no idea what you're talking about. Many people that I know are loners and they're perfectly healthy and they don't need as much social interaction as you do, and they function perfectly in society.
Speaker 1:Real quick, before you go down, that yeah please. And part of it is because a lot of these terms get thrown around so much that they become meaningless. And then everyone like I know so many people like, oh yeah, my ADHD brain. I was like did you go to a doctor? Yeah, yeah, yeah, brain. I was like did you go to a doctor, did you get evaluated? Or oh, the person's a narcissist. It's like, okay, how do you know that and who cares and what does that affect?
Speaker 2:Yeah, your desktop calendar is out of date.
Speaker 1:We heard something. So part of that is because those terms become so widespread.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, absolutely. And then now you force, you have a taxonomy, becomes inevitable. But he's fighting with people at the scene and his family, and he's so belligerent and drunk that he's covered in sweat, he's got dirt on his face and he's ripping off his own clothes while he's going up and the gibberish that he's spouting is just hilarious and stupid. Okay, that's what we're talking about. When we're talking about antisocial personality disorder, we're talking about the mental inability it's a disorder to distinguish good from bad, and you're breaking laws and you're not conforming to social laws. This kid held it together we talk about with crooks. Crooks fell right into all the thing and we have an episode on this coming folks, so I'm not going to ruin it now. But he fell right into and I hate to call it profile because that spins everybody out of control. That's exactly what it is. He fits the perfect profile for it and he was screaming for attention.
Speaker 2:So the idea is that don't look at antisocial personality disorder as a reason for it. Why do you choose that? Because you're afraid, Because you're an insecure, afraid human being and you've got to point to something that's outside of your ken and say it must have been this. Why do we get afraid when we see a fraction of a millisecond of a video and somebody says do you see this shadowy shape that looks like whatever? Well, that's a UFO. And even the most you know trained naval pilot said it was traveling at 4,000 feet per second and doing this and that, Brian, there's not enough on that video to draw a reasonable conclusion about anything. But because I'm controversial, it makes me feel better. I have some control over what's going on, and to know that you're questioning it too. Now I've created a mini tribe, a mini form of socialization on social media. That fits the need, but it's bullshit. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:And yeah, because the fear comes from, not we fear things we don't understand. Naturally, that's why we're still alive, that's why we're all live, either us talking or you listening to this conversation right now because somewhere in your throughout your lineage, people said let's not go, do that. Uh, let's not do that. Uh, maybe we shouldn't go over there, I'm a little scared. And so they stayed alive, exactly, and there's there's. So. So you have to have a healthy amount of fear for survival purposes.
Speaker 1:But I think a lot of this stems from I want to know, I want to understand this, and I don't because it's too vast, too broad, it's too complex.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to oversimplify it, and here's some things I know about the situation that are cognitively close enough or close enough to something that I know or have seen before. So it must be that and and that's first of all, that's a completely normal, logical, uh, survival based way to think, and it's how we're wired to think right, it is that. That, that's what. That's what like meaning our own cognitive processes are working against us when it comes to sensemaking, because, if I don't have a framework for this, because one of my buddies is super knowledgeable in this type of stuff and he was like, yeah, but look at what he did compared to what we know from tactical training at this program the average person showing up and starting that qualification with an M4 at 100 yards and blah blah. And I was like, yeah, but and then it was like a light bulb moment for me. I was like, oh OK, I see what you're comparing this to. Yep, that's an unreasonable comparison.
Speaker 2:Unreasonable comparison and an internal baseline. It's not an external baseline right, that was my point.
Speaker 1:It was you're going off of what you know and you can't unlearn what you know. You can't say, Greg, put aside all of this experience you have over here, no it takes agency. You can't do that. You can't do that, you can't unlearn, you can't just say I'm going to shut off the part of my brain that knows this information and go into it.
Speaker 1:You can't. So what we do is we equate it with what we know. But that can also get in the way because we don't know him, we don't know. Uh, get in the way because we, we don't know him, we don't know. And so we talk about the internal baseline versus the external baseline, and just what everyone does is is you know, they go the the exact opposite direction of what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1:An investigation, whatever goes, goes. I think this is what happened. Let me go find evidence to support my claim. Okay, well, like that's the, that's the opposite way of what you're supposed to go. You have to go. What can we? What do we know? What can we prove that we know happened, and then build from there and then let the evidence take you to where this situation goes, and you have to look at it as objective as you possibly can as a human. But but we don't do that as people, because I need to have an answer right now, because my brain fucking needs that and it needs it right away and I want to beat out the millions of people online too.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, well, that's the other part of it.
Speaker 1:That adds to the pressure of it, and everyone wants to be the first one out with the story. I think so. And now, because you have no repercussions. People don't even retract what they said or change it later, they just go. Well, you know, I mean, how much. That's the world we live in now. I mean it's the government's fault that. I even thought that it was a big conspiracy. It's like. No, it's not.
Speaker 1:The word you're looking for is I'm sorry, uh, but the word you're looking for is like what you're saying is I'm not responsible for any, for checking the veracity or the information that I take in, and and so it's that's the diffusion of responsibility that we see, but but it's like it. That's what frustrates me, and but I don't want it to be a.
Speaker 1:I don't't take it from a like a. This person's an idiot or they're an asshole or they're just full of themselves. It's like no, this is, this is kind of how we're wired, this is, this is the way things work and and it doesn't translate well over the the mediums that we use today. So back in the happy hour bar, there was corrective measures and whether those corrective measures were right or not, they were corrective measures for my tribe, my community, where I was at, and they formed your socialization for future, exactly.
Speaker 2:So, look, you said so much good stuff. Let's not hurry past this, let's slow down from it. First of all, folks, when Brian comes out with something and he picks it to death, he comes to his own realization after a while and calms down and then starts going okay, well, let's look at the scientific. But he started high and right, which is where we'll start again. I love that and I mean that's a really good trait, brian, because you mentally at your catch. You throw out all the shit, you get a little pissed about something and then you go back to find out why most humans don't do that. So I give you kudos for that.
Speaker 2:Let's go to crooks just for a second. Okay, crooks, on the day that trump is going to be in his town and people are going to go, it wasn't his town, it was closed town. Shut the fuck up for a minute and listen to what I'm saying. His area and now you got me angry, crooks. Crooks knows this, his family knows this, the neighbors know this, the people that are there know this. And Crooks comes up with the plan, by the way, because he is a social being. He says Mom, dad, I'm taking the rifle and going down to the rifle range, which is like me telling you when I'm in San Diego hey, brian, I know there's a hurricane, but I'm going to run down to the pier and do some fishing. Okay, it's that egregiously obvious.
Speaker 2:But what happens is the flash, the bang of social information and our likelihood not to believe that we're embroiled in this takes precedence. And so now the second part of that. Now we use that information to go back and go. Well, clearly there was a conspiracy, because the parents didn't see it. You think this was this kid's first lie. You think he didn't lie to a whole bunch of people to make this plan? Now, hold on, hold on. So what happens is now what we do, is we mistake misinformation for accident and we start making them way more than something.
Speaker 2:So there was one, a guy that's going down, and he goes look at this woman in the background and at this moment she looks to the right and then there's a smirk on her face and then she says something to herself. And when I slow it down, brian, have you ever played Angry Birds when you're supposed to be paying attention? Have you ever been dicking around on your phone sending somebody a text or a joke right in the middle of a really big concert or something like that, and if somebody took that moment in time and said I'm going to judge the rest of this event by this completely out of line information. That's what I fear, because you said that you said a number of things and they were all right, but what you failed to say is that there's a problem with these people getting on as experts, because it dumbs down all of us and that's the thing.
Speaker 2:It becomes. What is? It becomes a fact in record because they put it in print and that's not true. So we have to make sure that we go back to the bar, which I don't mind at all, but we have to make sure we go back to the 60s and 70s and we have to draw a line and say no, this shan't stand. This is not how good tribe members act. This is not philosophically correct, this is not psychologically correct and it's not healthy.
Speaker 1:There's, there's no going back. I know that, but it's, it's a way to look at these situations. And you know it's funny because, of course, you know the first text I got from my brother about it. He's like, well, it looks like it's like we're taking a break from social media for a couple of weeks and I was like, yeah, because it's like, oh God, here, here we go. But we all, we all, and here's, here's my other sort of question about this is we now all know that this happens right, that that people get on and they say things and they're just trying to be the first, so they're trying to get hurt, like we know this, we know, like that that's a recognition right there. And even people go, oh, here we go. Now everyone took their. You know, I saw, you know all the. The memes out of this situation have been absolutely incredible, which gives me hope for, for the for some have been very, very so damn funny.
Speaker 1:People are fucking hilarious and which, which I love, because, because those are great and it's like, uh, you know it, they were talking about some famous person, like oh so, and so realized that they're a, uh, they're a security expert. Now they went ahead and put that hat on this morning. It's like so we all know that that happens, but but then why does it continue to engage us and why does it continue to happen? Like you, you get what I'm saying. How come I can say that about certain areas, but then I'll go on and talk about this and not realize it in in, even though. Is it just because I'm close enough to know? Like, well, I kind of played that role before, so I can comment on it, even though.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, but even you're right.
Speaker 1:The people investigating it don't even have don't even have all the information, and they're they're they're literally investigating it right now and they're still putting everything together. So what is it about humans that will drop those lenses? We won't realize? We won't put those filters on when it's something that affects us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because there's a competition to be the one that drops your seed into somebody for procreation. I mean, if you want to know the really simplest answer about this, it's that there are tribal mechanics at work and you don't even know them anymore because you've been asking for a number three and supersizing a clown's mouth for so long that you forgot that. But all of us have a role. Crooks had a role, and what was going on is, in his life he was searching for something. He couldn't find one way, so he found an alternative. And did he succeed? In a lot of ways he did, and I don't mean anything about his attempted assassination, I mean about his socialization.
Speaker 2:So when you're in your family and you're constantly being berated and you don't make enough money and you don't do this and somebody goes, well, that's why somebody blow tops, that's why somebody commits suicide, yeah, but. But that's the end of the spectrum. Everything's this big long spectrum. Uh, I went and got gas today and somebody goes hey, nice car, holy shit, that made the rest of my day, brian. I went and ordered a sandwich and not only did he get a sandwich, but those barbecue or sea salt chips were amazing, or I did my, you know, whatever, and I got some sort of feedback. We don't understand how much that in a day-to-day environment, is crucial to us, and so what happens is we get it from social media and we seek out sites that give us a return on our investment, whether it's pornographic or whether it's, you know, people sniping other people and commenting and being rude and being mean, or the breakdown. Now I can watch a video breakdown and then type in wow, I saw that, or man, that's good. And now I feel the same level is if I'm with those guys in that group. And that one was a SEAL Brian, holy shit. And that one guy said he was a sniper and I agreed with him. So that kind of feedback we're now getting in a different manner. The problem with it is flash to bang, the speed within which we're getting it, because it doesn't allow us to give ourselves a gift of time and distance and slow things down and think about it, because if I would have said it at the kitchen table, my dad would have punched me right in the mouth. He would have knocked me out of that chair. If I would have been different politically or religiously or said something off color or done that, I would have known immediately that I was on the wrong path because we were in small groups. Then we went to work in our cubicles, then we drove in our car in society with a bunch of other people in their cars. It's just faster now, so we have to take that into account.
Speaker 2:No-transcript. So now my electrochemical neurotransmitters. I don't have to wait around to get out my kit and find a vein and do the heroin. Now all I got to do is go online and throw a table, you know, through the window and go hey bitches, I'm here and I get that feedback. And, brian, I can do that on my phone while I'm driving, right, and that's problematic because our emotional selves hasn't caught up with our intellectual selves yet.
Speaker 1:So it's not. So what you're saying then is it's, it's, it's almost, even though we know like, ok, yeah, I, I start posting on social media, I get a bunch of likes and comments. Ok, that, that obviously get that little bit of dopamine, I get a reward. Ok, that, that that's cool, I'm going to repeat that behavior. And then it sort of becomes a habit. Right, and a lot of I think a lot of a lot of this stuff is um, people are just end up. You know, your, your baseline has shifted so much from what you think normal is.
Speaker 1:You just, you're just on there all the time where you're doing this and it becomes, becomes habit, and so now you're seeking that out, you know, and, and, but you're almost what it sounds like you're saying to me is that it's, it's even sort of deeper than that, like the, the mechanism that we use now is tapping into a psychological and sociological imperative for all humans and it's it's filling a void that that has, that that needs to be filled, like it's not just some pleasure or oh, you know, everyone wants to say, oh you, that person's just full of themselves. They got a big ego. Everyone has an ego. I don't use that term negatively, I use it just just all humans are you're, you're concerned about yourself and your feelings more than you recognize. I think that's what you're getting at. Is so this, this one, well, one interaction, social interaction in any form, is, is a necessity for all humans.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know the, the, the loner term is is, so I think it's just bad language. Um, because a lot of people they call like oh, they're, it's a lone wolf, or they no one knew, or they're off, it's like no, if they were a lone wolf, they'd be living up in the mountain somewhere and you'd never see them or hear from them. Because they're good, they don't want to. They don't want that interaction. They want to be left alone. Uh, these people actually the ones who carry out attacks like they do want that interaction and they're not getting it in some manner or they're not being heard in some way, but they're going to be. They don't have it. So it's like, so it's, they're not a loner there. They've, they've been, they've they've self identified, you know, they've self diagnosed as this category, but and and that's what's causing sort of this, this it's like you know, the Kaczynski with sending the letters out and then his brother reading going I've heard this before. That's my brother, ted, and it's Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. At Columbine, While the shooting was going on, their parents called in to the sheriff's station and not to say I think it's my kid, ethan Crumbly. When the parents found out that there was a shooting at the school, they called and said I think it's my son, what happened with Crooks, right? His parents found out there's a shooting and they go. They called the police and said I think it's my kid, so it's in.
Speaker 1:And these are the things that we focus on and I know we'll get into that in detail on a separate episode and I think there's a good way to set that up. We just want to wait and verify a few things and wait till some more stuff comes out, um, so we can present that what we, what we, what we're, what we're suspecting, based on the evidence we've seen so far, um, but it's, it's um, the way we discuss these things and the language we use is is becomes misleading. And then we sort of attribute things to that and now we sort of dog pile on and oh yeah, and then I bet you know he couldn't get a girlfriend and he couldn't do that. It's like, yeah, well, these were all contributing factors. You know, maybe he had a chemical imbalance to his whole entire life that started when he was a little kid and led him down this path, or then they also had this.
Speaker 1:But we focus on who the target was and what his motive was. What political party did they belong to? And it's like, look, that's inconsequential, that doesn't matter. It matters in terms of investigation to figure out was this part of a bigger plan? Was this something by some other nation state or was this a conspiracy carried out by a group of individuals? Yes, that you have to determine as investigation. So you look into what the motive was, but for stuff like this, it's like none of that matters. This is a broken human being again, who carried this thing out and felt like this. So what we do is we sort of conflate all these issues and throw them together and then go. Well, who benefits from this?
Speaker 1:It's like well, stop for a second and go with what you can prove and what we know, and that's a smaller box and we're not happy with that. And so I see this with every situation and it just blows my mind and frustrates me and I this. This is why I also stay off social media a lot Because, like you even brought up, just everyone keeps reposting the same shit like that. I mean, yes, I know I do pattern recognition for a living and so I probably see more patterns than most people do, because that's what I, that's what I do, but it's like I scroll through and it's like this is all the same thing. The last 67 posts I went by were basically almost identical.
Speaker 2:But how can you think that that's new? That's what we're talking about in this episode. You think that that's a form of validation. You made a mixtape with songs that somebody else wrote and recorded and you gave them to somebody and said this is my life, what. You sent a passage from a book that another author wrote. Brian, I'm just saying let's go historically here and put things in a clear lens, because what happens?
Speaker 2:so look prolonged periods of isolation can lead to mental health issues. That's true. Being a loner has nothing to do with that, that's a completely different thing. But we conflate them. Then, all of a sudden, I've got friends. And you've got friends that said, hey look, the fix is in. Well, tell me about that.
Speaker 2:Well, there's just too many things that happened on this one incident for me to think that they were all random. And I say second law of thermodynamics. And they go no, no, no, don't start with your entropic period in this and the theory. And I go why you don't want me to interrupt your bullshit with science, brian? There was a reason.
Speaker 2:Every one of these things happen, the if my dad used to say it this way.
Speaker 2:He said if the dog wouldn't have stopped to take a piss, he would have caught the rabbit. And it took me 13 years to figure out that my dad was a human behavior profiler, that he understood situation awareness better than I ever would in my life, because he looked at the situation and instead of putting things together in an awkward Frankensteinian fashion and welding them together, dad looked at him at 360 and he said let's take a look what's really happening here. And he rolled it around, look what's really happening here. And he rolled it around. And Brian, that's all I think that we're saying here is that some people get the immediate gratification from being seen as some sort of expert in their field, and that can become the cause of them wanting to repeat that behavior, even though that behavior is no longer necessary for the survival of the tribe survival of the tribe and and we don't, um, as humans really understand, uh, randomness very well and exactly, even though the world the world is is more connected in a sense.
Speaker 1:Now, um, you know, mario, they used to do, like the what was it? The uh, six degrees of kevin bacon or something like that, where they take any actor and go well, this actor was in a movie with this person who was with this person who was in, and it all leads back to, like, kevin Bacon, like, and it's funny because it's like, yes, that's that's how the world is. Just because, like, like, I have phone numbers and contacts in my phone and this is nothing about me, this is just that of people that I have met before and discussed and they would go oh yeah, I remember you, brian who are one phone call away. That person could pick up a phone and call Donald Trump. The other person would pick up a phone and call Barack Obama. Like, that doesn't mean I have any connection to those two people whatsoever. So, even though there's, there's one person that could link me to that person, that doesn't mean I can call up and get them on the phone.
Speaker 1:Like I went to the first high school I went to was with comedian John Mulaney and like he's a year ahead of me and like one of the stories that went viral, that like from one of his standups, like that was about me and my friends and that was like my one buddy is still pissed about it and it's like he got off on our story, blah, blah, blah. I was like well, like well, no, he made a joke out of it, but like that doesn't mean that, you know, it doesn't mean anything besides that. It's like you, you happen to have this interaction. That that was. That person was connected somewhere else in some in some other fashion. There's no, there's nothing, there's no connective fiber.
Speaker 1:It's, it's a random occurrence that coalesces when the events occur. Like if Crooks had got a flat tire on the way to that thing, we would not be discussing this right now. And you know what he would have gone. Maybe he would have gone. I missed my chance and never did that, never did that again, never did anyone else, never tried that again. Like, and we're not. The part that fascinates me is you know why we're not OK with that? Like, why can I not accept that? Why is that not enough for me to go? Wow, that's, that's crazy how these things coalesce. One shift in the wind or turn of the head changed the outcome of events, even though I just saw it. I just saw it where, if Trump had to turn his head, he'd be dead right now, assassinated on television.
Speaker 1:I can accept that and I can say, oh, that's divine intervention or something, whatever you want to attribute that to. But then, when it's looking at how this event unfolded, I don't use that same logic, I don't use that same way of looking at things.
Speaker 2:You went to a carnival with your kids and allowed carny folk to put them on a ride that may or may have not been tested, because they wanted to and said daddy, daddy, let me go on the ride. And you?
Speaker 1:stood by. It was just cruising down the highway 10 minutes before that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and it's leaking oil now down the highway. 10 minutes before that, yeah, exactly, and it's leaking oil now. And you stood by when it rackety boomed the kids around and you know you were a little afraid of the things that might've happened there, but you did it consciously, knowing what the risks were, because you were willing to weigh those risks. The difference is, in the moment we tend to do those things where, as when we look at big picture stuffs, we still think these things are somehow within our control, talking about them, but they're out of our control. There's something that we had nothing to do with. But we want to give our opinion because I can go home and sleep. I can go home that night and know that's not going to happen to me. Those people, I would have been able to pick them out. Look those stupid cops. That guy over there yelled in the bit. You have no idea what the noise levels were. You have no idea where they were standing.
Speaker 2:The camera is not the perfect eye, but we're willing to comment on it because we want to be part of the team. We don't want to be that person that's not allowed into Studio 54. We don't want to be that person that's so far back in line that they never get interviewed or have a chance at the gosh damn sweepstakes. We want to be relevant, and that's the fight now. The fight now is can we still be relevant if nobody knows me? You know the biggest insults fly over states. Wow, the gang of deplorables when we use that stuff what does it do?
Speaker 2:You understand how that works, so I need you to read my opinion, brian. I even know it's opinion-based testimony. I want you to associate my words with something positive or negative.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you to stop being a snowflake and stop letting everything hurt your feelings. Don't be so offended. But then when you call where I live a flyover state I get offended and I get upset you absolutely crush me, but that's the part that like is that's human.
Speaker 1:That's well, that's what I love about humans, that's, that's everything. That, right, there is everything. It's. You know, it's like you, you, you, the the problem is the problem. But the problem is also like, if you're recording yourself doing a rant in a truck, like about everything, like you're, you're the issue, you're not understanding it. Like that that's the problem and and which is fine, like I don't, I'm not. This is not a judgment on any of these things, because we all engage in this behavior in some manner, like we, because it fills a need it fills, a need that's been with humans since humans.
Speaker 2:I can't just live in that cave alone, I can fish, I can hunt, that's great. But then I see oogluck and muck tar across the road. I got to go and engage them. And then I engage them and guess what? I felt pretty good and I slept better last night because the saber tooth tiger didn't come into the cave, because the oogluck stayed up to watch the television and he chased it out. That need, what it forms, is a bond, and that bond is hardwired into humans. And guess what? When it came to crooks, crooks wanted to feel that too. And he wanted to feel that so much that he bought a ladder and he scouted things out and he trained and he used you know. So guess what, brian? He used unconventional methods to achieve the same thing that you achieve on social media every day. And you know what Can we fault the kid for that.
Speaker 2:He was 20. Did he know better? Yeah, kind of, but, but he was just acting out the role we wrote for him. This is not something that like, like people are still trying to figure out.
Speaker 1:We have to try to help write it. I agree he's not. I agree he's confused, but that's with any of them. Just read any manifesto that anyone has ever written about this stuff Exactly Like any one of these and it's all over the place. They have no fundamental understanding. They have no specific ideology and intent. They rarely do, unless it's, like you know, he held down a job.
Speaker 2:He had friends Come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so did.
Speaker 2:Elliot Rodger right, I mean, you're on to something now and that's for a future episode, folks. The point here is that the inevitability comes from the hardwired psychopathy of humans, and we all repeat those behaviors because they're in our best interest when they're grown up and we haven't evolved past them.
Speaker 1:So so what, what can, what can I do? You know, given everything we talked about and given the um context and how communication is like, how, how can I regulate that? Like, because me, I'm the it's hard, it's like I gotta get to stay off this fucking site for the next week, and but it's that's. Even me knowing how this stuff works, it's hard for me to to sort of accept it or go through it, because I just get bombarded with it. Now, the memes, the funny stuff oh please, if you're set those of you out there who have been sending me that fucking hilarious, I love it because it's, it's great, that showed the sense of humor. But, um, but when it comes to this I'm going to make a comment.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like I'm super hesitant. I mean, you've even seen me in class where people lay stuff out and I was like, look, based on what you're saying, but it sounds like there's more. Let me caveat that with a few things. Here's why I'm arriving at that. So what can I do to get? Is there anything I can do, if I'm listening to this right now, to get better at it or filter it or do something? I mean to help gain just help gain a better perspective on what it is that I'm ingesting. What is this information that I'm ingesting?
Speaker 2:So I would say start with you first. And I'm telling everybody start with yourself first. I don't know if that's proper grammar, and what I mean by that is that you've got to take a look. It's.
Speaker 1:Detroit Public School grammar.
Speaker 2:Exactly? What's the necessity of the comment that you're about to make or write or post? What's the urgency? Is there a purpose to it? Now, if that purpose is that you want to rant and vent, then it's okay, because if you don't rant and vent in writing or in making a video or do something like that, you're going to blow top, and that's not healthy. If it's going to be inciting somebody to get up and work towards cleaning up the river, I would say that you're probably on the right track. If it's inciting somebody to get up and work towards cleaning up the river, I would say that you're probably on the right track. If it's inciting somebody to come up and just be civil disobedient to be a classic, you know, uh uh obstructionist I would say you're probably on the wrong uh uh direction.
Speaker 2:Your attitude and emotions and uh ability to blend in with other humans societally is for a purpose. It's for you to live out a long life and procreate and everybody that'll get along. Dei when it's forced is shit. Dei when it occurs naturally in socialization is always a wonderful thing. Take a look around you.
Speaker 2:So what you got to do is you got to disconnect once in a while. You got to take the phone and shut it off. You got to put it away. You got to read a different magazine. You got to sit down with a couple of people at the coffee shop and talk about things, and what I mean is opening the aperture, because what you've allowed is you allowed the last few years of social media to narrow your focus and your perspective, and when I narrow my focus and my perspective, I can't get out of my own way. I'm so trapped. Look, how many times do we say thinking outside the box, dude, there's a lot of great shit in the box and we're handing out flashlights. But go back to that white belt curiosity. And when you're a white belt you're learning so much more than you do when you're a black belt.
Speaker 1:And if that makes sense to you.
Speaker 2:That's how I live my life, brian. Look, I'm an opinionated son of a bitch and I know a lot of shit, but you know why I don't go on social media Folks? I have a LinkedIn site and every Monday I drop it. It happened on a Monday and I comment on other people's site. Why? Because I'm trying to make money by broadening my appeal and exposure in my brand. So a new client will go holy shit, this guy might know what he's talking about. The reason we're on this podcast is because we're trying to open your aperture, we're not trying to close it. So, brian, that would be my answer, and I know it felt convoluted, but I hope you can see my primary goal is that social media can work either way. Don't let it have a potential effect. Sometimes you need to disconnect.
Speaker 1:Either way, don't let it have a potential effect Sometimes you need to disconnect, and I think you actually hit the nail on the head, which would be my answer to my own question or my advice. People, when you said, start, start with you. And so it's like a lot of people are just doing things and repeating this behaviors out of habit, and this is what it's become, and there's like there's almost no intent behind it, because it's just something you've done. And if you don't know your own intent behind why you're doing something, then then you, that's that's where you think about. It's like what is the point of of this that I'm trying to make? And that's even ingesting the information too. Like I don't.
Speaker 1:Like you said, part of the reason why people say so much stuff is because language actually is only so much and you can only base so much on words and and so because this is based that, because this mass communication is based on just lines of text, I have to I infer a lot of things, and I may be wrong about that, and so I don't get someone's intent. But if I look at it, and so I don't get someone's intent, but if I look at it and go, what? What is your intent with this? What are you really trying to say, or what are you trying to get across? Or really trying to do? Um, it helps me well, because I do that when I'm on these apps, because it goes, all right, this person has no idea what their intent is. They're just, they're just on transmit, they're just blasting shit out there and what other ones?
Speaker 1:Well, especially if you look at like a political ad or something like that, there's a clear intent and a clear message behind it. Those are great examples to use to go okay, this is a profile of something that is deliberate and there's an intent behind it and they're trying to get me to think, act, behave or whatever in a certain manner. So it's very, very, very deliberate and so it's great to see that, because it's a great comparison to something like well then, what's this over here? Just someone spouting off nonsense or speaking off a cough? Because even when we're doing this podcast, we at least have an intent behind an episode.
Speaker 1:We may not spell it out explicitly on purpose. We might just keep it implicit with what we're talking about and let the listener take it where they want to, because there are certain topics and certain subjects that we do that because we want to make it personal to you, and sometimes it's very clear saying like hey, this is what we believe, this is why we believe it. Here's some evidence to support that claim. This is what you can do with it. And so that intent in being deliberate, I think, is more relevant now than it ever has been, because it helps keep the message clear. I guess that would be my takeaway from it too. Greg, I don't know if you have anything else, just a few things.
Speaker 2:Shannon West shout out to Shannon West and his wife Keep doing the great stuff you're doing. Thanks for being a fan. Same thing, cassie out in Montrose Love, love. Thanks for being such a fan. Brian Tila won the watershed first and third two different horses during the rodeo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he sent some photos.
Speaker 2:And and so Lanny's pissed. He's right down the hill that's what the dog was, uh, barking at his land. He's loading up the horses to go rope. And so lots happened in Gunnison over the last couple of weeks, folks. And and this attempt of fascination shouldn't change the rest of your world, man, there's a lot of happening. We can come back from anything. We're resilient.
Speaker 1:We're humans. Go out and be curious today, find something new. Yeah, I'm actually very fascinated and interested in this sort of moment in time and how things have shifted rapidly over the last couple of years coming out of COVID and just different things that are falling by the wayside. Finally, that should and things that are now being discussed and ways that are being discussed are changing. So I actually look at all these things. As you know. It's well, it's danger and opportunity, right.
Speaker 2:I've heard that somewhere there was a good platform.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one other thing to listen to. There is no whatever podcast player you're listening to this on or watching there actually should be. There's a little thing on there that says send us a text message, you can kind of respond or say something about the episode. I can't, we can't respond directly back to you. That's for our patreon subscribers, so so you can always find out more. There's a link in there too. It's a support show or says patreon and you can. We do a lot more on there and answer any questions people have when you reach out to us. So there's always that on there. But there's a little thing for for feedback.
Speaker 1:I love getting feedback from this stuff and we we don't get. You know we. We get feedback or we get comments from the people that have been following us, but, like you know, just the, the random ones. I always like to. I always want to know how that stuff comes across. So we would appreciate it if you, if you reach out there. Um, shout out there. Shout out to Richard Simmons Brought a lot of joy to people's lives.
Speaker 2:Brian, I used to diet. Richard Simmons came up with a certain diet that he did with Weight Watchers and some other people. I used that when I was a copper man the vest was getting a little tight. I sweated to the oldies because they weren't oldies to me.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. I sweated to the oldies because they weren't oldies to me. You know what I'm saying. I like that. And also famous sex therapist, dr Ruth, died. I think she's like 95 or 96.
Speaker 2:I hope she died getting railed. I honestly hope she was still in the sack. No, because she was cool too. She was a pioneer, you know.
Speaker 1:She was a pioneer, talking about things that people weren't, weren't, weren't, weren't, yeah, weren't, weren't, uh, weren't weren't talking about and and, uh, hey there's a lot of ways of dying in bed.
Speaker 2:That's a good one.
Speaker 1:Just remember that there's a lot of really shitty ways of dying in bed bob saget I'm just saying think about it, that's going, I think jesus at least you're not angry anymore. That's going on your business card there's a lot of shitty ways to die in bed.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:That's going on your tombstone, that's your epitaph right there, thank you.
Speaker 2:I think on that note.
Speaker 1:Bob Saget thanks everyone for tuning in. We appreciate it. There's always. There's always room for Jello, there's always more, so follow the links and find out more. But we appreciate you tuning in and don't forget that training changes behavior.
