The Human Behavior Podcast
Do you ever wonder why people act the way that they do? Join human behavior experts Brian Marren and Greg Williams as they discuss all things human behavior related. Their goal is to increase your Advanced Critical Thinking ability through a better understanding of HBPR&A (Human Behavior Pattern Recognition & Analysis.) What is HBPR&A? It's a scientific (and fun) way to understand and articulate human behavior cues so that you can predict likely outcomes and it works regardless of your race, religion, political ideology or culture!
The Human Behavior Podcast
Threshold For Action
Humans are great at pattern recognition, but we often fail at the analysis portion because we have to rely primarily on subjective interpretations of events. So, this week, we are talking about the difficulty in determining when a situation has met a threshold for action, and we give you some basic takeaways that you can use to determine when it’s time to intervene.
During the episode we break down various real-life scenarios, including a mayor's criminal actions, a chilling family annihilator case, and an ambush on law enforcement, to illustrate how taking the time to identify seemingly subtle cues allows you to see a much clearer picture of an event.
We explore the often-overlooked shifts in behavior that can lead to catastrophic outcomes, using natural patterns and high-profile cases like Chad Dorman and Misty Roberts as examples. You'll learn about the role of attribution errors and the necessity of adjusting your baselines to maintain accurate situational awareness, particularly in high-stakes environments like law enforcement.
Finally, we delve into the importance of critical thinking and adaptive strategies in understanding human behavior. By examining historical precedents and concepts like Darwinian evolution and power dynamics, we discuss how to reassess and correct harmful patterns. This episode also emphasizes the significance of time, communication, and seeking feedback to navigate unpredictable situations effectively.
Thank you so much for tuning in, we hope you enjoy the episode and please check out our Patreon channel where we have a lot more content, as well as subscriber only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don’t forget that Training Changes Behavior!
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. Humans are great at pattern recognition, but we often fail at the analysis portion because we have to rely primarily on subjective interpretations of events. So this week we are talking about the difficulty in determining when a situation has met a threshold for action, and we give you some basic takeaways that you can use to determine when it's time to intervene. During the episode, we break down various real-life scenarios, including a mayor's criminal actions, a chilling family annihilator case and an ambush on law enforcement, to illustrate how taking the time to identify seemingly subtle cues allows you to see a much clearer picture of an event. We explore the often overlooked shifts in behavior that can lead to catastrophic outcomes, using natural patterns. In high-profile cases like Chad Dorman and Misty Roberts' examples, you'll learn about the role of attribution errors and the necessity of adjusting your baselines to maintain accurate situational awareness, particularly in high-stakes environments like law enforcement. Finally, we delve into the importance of critical thinking and adaptive strategies in understanding human behavior. By examining historical precedents and concepts like Darwinian evolution and power dynamics, we discuss how to reassess and correct harmful patterns. The episode also emphasizes the significance of time, communication and seeking feedback to navigate unpredictable situations effectively. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the episode and please check out our Patreon channel, where we have a lot more content as well as subscriber-only episodes of the show. If you enjoyed the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and, more importantly, please share with a friend. Thank you for your time. I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and, more importantly, please share with a friend. Thank you for your time and don't forget that training changes behavior. All right, good morning, greg, and hello everyone, and thank you for tuning in to the Human Behavior Podcast. Just a quick reminder to our listeners we have a Patreon site. You can check out all the links from the episode details where we have all kinds of different, all kinds of more information, extra episode stuff and things we release to our listeners and, of course, we answer any questions on there as well. But we also have, depending on what podcast player you're listening to, there should be a little link on there. It says literally send us a text message. You can send in a message or response or a question right on there. It's not something I can really access live or something on here, but or, and it doesn't allow me to respond directly to you, but at least I get some feedback. So I just want to remind everyone that's on there and to check that out and also follow us on social media.
Speaker 1:So for today, greg, we're going to go over a few topics, and some of this comes from conversations we've had and some of it comes from a lot of questions we get from people in general. And you know it comes from when someone kind of goes well, how do I know when I'm seeing something and it doesn't feel right? Maybe, maybe I can't articulate it like you guys, but I know there's something going on here, or I think there is. Or how do I tell? And when do I meet this, this intervention, or when do I take action, which? So it's sort of like I would phrase the question is when? When does it reach, you know, a threshold for action, and so that's, that's a, that's a tough one, and so the other one is you know, in general, as human beings, we kind of don't know what to do with information. Sometimes we're really not good at it. So we're really good at the pattern recognition part and not so great at the analysis part. Right, and that's the most important part. That's where things go wrong, because you kind of lack a fundamental understanding of how we process and perceive information and there's also sort of this temporal element to everything. There's a time element with everything. So what I kind of wanted to go over today is that you know when we've covered things where, like what seems normal or typical and how to describe that, but really when am I supposed to recognize that there's something that requires some intervention or there's something that I need to do? And what do we do with information and how do we categorize it? So there's a bunch of things in here that we're going to get to.
Speaker 1:When it comes to that, when we talk about HBPR and A, the analysis part and when it sort of meets that threshold, because, looking back, we use different case studies and different examples. Some are obvious, some are not obvious. We take them from all over the place and all kinds of different situations to really give people understanding and a lot of times people go well, yeah, that's great. Looking back you can pick all this stuff apart. But that person at the time, how are they supposed to know that? And that's a legitimate thing to say. But there's a lot of them. You could have intervened, you should have noticed, and there's reasons why they didn't. And there's reasons why they sort of either stepped over their own sort of intuitive feeling about something or gut feeling or instinctual response to say, oh, it's probably nothing right, and that happens all the time and you're never going to have all the information.
Speaker 1:So, of all these topics I want to throw to you because I know you have a few examples to bring up and we can jump into it from there but the big sort of takeaways I want to get is understanding that it can be complex but it isn't. Uh, if you look at it correctly, if you look um at at how to understand some of the situations you're going to talk about, that we can then know. If I'm in that moment, you know I can go hey, wait a minute, this is one of those things those guys are talking about, or this is. This seems a little bit different. I need to investigate this further. Does that kind of make sense, greg?
Speaker 2:No, it's spot on. And so it's down to what Brian always tells you folks it's how to look. It's not what to look for, it's how to look. And, for example, right now you should be looking at my 1983 Greg outfit. I look like David Byrne. Watch out, you might get what you're after. Cool babies, I mean, do I not look like the talking heads? I just noticed that on the camera.
Speaker 2:So what we're going to do is we'll break it up into sections, right? So the first one, and there's three that'll make this abundantly clear as we talk about different things. So the first is a position of trust issue. So, just a couple of days ago you had a 42-year-old, misty Clinton Roberts, the former mayor of DeRidder, louisiana, and she resigns just before she's arrested for rape and contributing to the delinquency of a minor, Important caper, and it's a type of caper like teachers sleeping with students that we need to get after, the second being a family annihilator. And and uh, uh, ohio, uh, we had Chad Dorman last year that just got sentenced, but in Alabama, just a couple of days ago, we have Brandon Allen Kendrick, uh uh, who uh has five counts of capital murder against him, a mass shooting, uh, at his grandfather's property in rural Alabama. How does that happen? How does a family annihilator and in both of those instances the doorman and the Kendrick, the shooter's still alive, but everybody else is dead.
Speaker 2:And then the third, and this is to contrast and compare. This is how we build a baseline for understanding how to look at something is an ambush scenario and we just had it in Lake County, florida, where a master deputy, harold Howell, I apologize and two others entered a house during an unknown trouble call. He was shot dead, injured and in the hospital right now. But the important thing about the caper is it was set up as an ambush, it started as an ambush. It didn't turn into an ambush, which is an important differentiation.
Speaker 2:So if we just take a look at those three, brian, and we compare them, what we've got now is we've got any time a person in a position of trust is sleeping with a student or, you know, a Boy Scout or Girl Scout or somebody in there. Then we've got the second one, which is any time that we have a situation where a family annihilator and everybody looks back and says, well, we never knew is what they say at the beginning, and then they go. Well, there's all these leakage signals and then finally the ambush type scenario where something goes horribly sideways so quickly, and guess what we always say well, nobody could have predicted this, and I don't think that's true.
Speaker 1:Okay, so one thing real quick, actually two things real quick. Are you? Are you hearing me and is there audio? Okay, or is that just? I'm hearing you loud and clear stuff on my answer? Okay, so we're all good, all right. Sorry, I don't know, this thing keeps switching on me, but uh, I'm sure you brought up three seemingly completely different situations. Now you ended it with something that I would agree with a lot of people. We have this idea. Well, how am I supposed to know that that's going to happen? Or we could have never predicted it, or that was so rare. And I immediately my big thing is to to go hang on. Um, everything can be predicted.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean you can predict everything, but everything can't right, like you, you know what I'm saying, um, but if I look at it that way, then it allows me to see things like I can't predict exactly where, uh, lightning is going to strike, but I can predict when it's likely, when all the conditions have been met for lightning to occur, and then you can look out and say, okay, all conditions for lightning are here and we're likely going to get lightning. A meteorologist can tell you that, right, and then you can say well, what, what is that likely going to hit in this area? If we're in a big open field, there's a giant metal pole in a minute. I well, there's a good spot for it. I would ask what is the common theme Out of these three completely different cases? Why are you chunking them together for this discussion? I want to start there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm going to answer in an unconventional fashion, but it'll make abundant sense once we get around to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, surprise.
Speaker 2:I'm back to the talking heads once we get it out there. Yeah, surprise, I'm back to the talking heads. So listen to me. We are too close to situations to judge them because we get the pattern recognition, but we fail on the analysis, and this is what Brian just told you about. So even nature continues to nudge us, to tell us things are about to happen to allow our predictive analysis. For example, dawn and dusk, they repeat. Why does dawn come up? Dawn comes up, hey, fresh new day, let's get started, let's get out there. Dusk hey, things come out at night. We don't want to be out there and get eaten. Why do the seasons change? Okay, well, we have to plant now, we have to harvest now. So everything in the world is designed to cue us in to certain things, right. But when we get too close and we get busy with non-survival essential things, then our brain goes well, shit, they don't need me anymore, I'm going to go rest. And your brain becomes dormant to these cues, to these inconsistencies and incongruent clusters of cues that are right in front of you. And so what's the same about all of them?
Speaker 2:Well, let's take a look at Ohio, one of the two that I briefly discussed about the family annihilators is Chad Dorman, and Chad Dorman just got folks look it up. It's a big caper. That happened a year ago. He just got convicted of a number of life sentences. He killed his three sons. He shot his wife. She ended up living. The daughter runs across the street. You all remember it. And the Claremont County prosecutor says this was lightning from a blue sky.
Speaker 2:There was no way we could have predicted this incident happening. Okay, now, when we go back to the ambush at Lake County, florida, these were coppers that were responding to a call that never in their panacea of wildest dreams said hey, wait a minute, somebody might be setting us up for an ambush, even though one of the neighbors said I don't know what's going on in there, but they kept trying to lure us into the house. And this was seconds before the coppers made entry to check on the welfare. And in the first one I talked about, which is the third one I'm talking about now with Misty Roberts, okay, she's a mayor, she's 42 years old. Why in the world nobody in that position would ever predate on a kid and have sex with the child or lure a child into an inappropriate relationship.
Speaker 2:So what's happening is our attribution. Error here is that we say, well, this could never happen, and therefore we become we blind ourselves. If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out. We blind ourselves to the possibility, brian. And once we do that, what happens is our baseline becomes solidified and we don't add the right things or remove the right things. People forget, brian, that you have to take things out of the baseline when they don't fit, when they're conclusions that aren't logical and reasonable.
Speaker 1:So this is part of when we get into it's, extracting normalcy for your environment and internal versus external baselines. And what is my known? What am I comparing this to? And so what happens over time, especially with, like, your family annihilators, especially with the mayor, the woman in position of trust, or it's a teacher or whoever predating on a, on a student or a child, you know that sort of baseline shifts, and so we're, we're looking at it right now, today, when you know, especially the family and I are later, when you brought up, it's like, okay, well, this guy had, like, was schizophrenic and he consistently like stopped taking his meds and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened. And so what it becomes is we're no longer comparing it to something typical that the baseline has shifted, and this is what people talk about, even just like normal, what in psychology is called like habituation, where you start doing something and then you get less novelty from it, less stimulus. It's like next thing, you know you're on social media for 12 hours a day and you didn't even realize that until you had some thing show you. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So that can happen over time and so that becomes very difficult to do and because we simplify things, like I was having a discussion with a friend one time and they're like kind of just trying to poke and not poke and pry, like just literally just try to learn more about how, how we see the world, and he's like, so you're telling me that you know, guy, that just uh, the bartender just served us a beer could be a serial killer. I go, it's highly unlikely, uh, but yeah, it's completely possible. He's like whoa, they're so friendly. And, as I go, everything you're attributing to means nothing. It means this in one interaction, uh, that lasted 90 seconds and you're trying to figure out something from that. You can't that you.
Speaker 1:You need to have time and you need to have observation, you need to to look at things exactly and so, and the reason why I bring that up is because because we, uh, because that baseline changes over time and it's slow, steady changes we're less likely to notice it and that becomes, becomes why it's sort of this, this seemingly bolt out of the blue. It's like, well, I had no idea that could happen here. It's like, well, it can, it can happen anywhere. It's unlikely, but it can, it can and and so that's how, how am I, how, how do we, how do we get past that? Right, how do I make those initial like cause the? So I take those initial like because the and I brought up the temporal element, the time element and all of this, but like for the law enforcement one, the one example you gave about the ambush, it's like you know what are they supposed to do. They just got there you know what I'm saying. Like they had no history about this family. Let's unpack that. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let me take you on a history tour. It was 1997 and I was having a discussion. I was a supervisor as a copper, but a road supervisor, not stuck up in a coop all day and I was talking to a detective that I admired and respected up until this conversation and this just lost a couple of steps. It didn't lose me forever, but it was about Mary Kay Letourneau, and Mary Kay Letourneau is a 34-year-old teacher who is banging a 12-year-old student. Now, that wasn't the part that we were talking about. We were talking about that when poor Mary Kay Letourneau gets let out of prison on a probation parole-style situation, just a few months after going to jail she's going to learn her lesson, she's caught by road cops in a car down the road with the same student. She ended up Brian having two kids with them, and I don't want to speak ill of the dead, because she died of some horrible shit very recently, very young. But the idea was that, listen, she was given a number of chances and she could not keep away and she went back to it. Do you honestly think and this is what the argument was over Do you honestly think that she was making out and and making meetings and this was before texting and stuff, so it had to be notes and written things and and clandestine meetings. Do you honestly think that nobody noticed a difference in this 12 year old? Are you honestly telling me that Mary Kay Letourneau's husband and her friends and family didn't notice the change? Today there was an article about hey, let's outlaw black clothing in schools because black is a depressing color and that's going to change school shooters and people from committing suicide. How about we look at the science here for five minutes. Do you get what I'm saying? And do a test? Letourneau gave cues, brian, to look at those cops that were newly on the street and somebody's going to go. Hey, listen, you're talking about something. With the memory of these cops, you better tread on thin ice. No, I won't tread on thin ice.
Speaker 2:At 9.03 pm, the copper, the master deputy on the scene, had so much information that shit was going on in that house that he disregarded everything else and, for the safety of that family, he made entry. The minute that he crosses the threshold of the house, his body-worn camera picks up the frames of an adult male behind the couch with a rifle, ambushing him, that starts to shoot, and the two daughters are in there shooting as well. So what happens is he made the decision I have to, based on all the information that's incoming right now, make entry on this house. Why? Because the nutty woman that he met outside was given Bible phrases and just odd statements. They handcuffed her and she's supposed to be the reporting party and the call didn't add up. And, brian, you remember Sean always talking about the holes in the Swiss cheese, lining up.
Speaker 2:Listen, when the cues that you're getting don't add up, your instincts are telling you rush in there. We need to save everybody, but what you have to do is for survival, you have to give yourself the gift of time and distance. You have to say this call is so different that I have to give the kaleidoscope another turn and imagine what might be happening. So I have to look. In engineering they talk about baselining and when you change a baseline and they said whenever a significant change occurs, a project may be re-baselined and this means issuing a new, updated baseline to measure against.
Speaker 2:If those coppers in Florida would have done that, and everybody's going oh, don't second guess, don't armchair. Hey, kiss my ass. I was a copper, been on a ton of shootings, I got scar tissue, but I'm not dead. And I'm not dead because I used the gift of time and distance. I'm not saying these cops had that choice. I'm saying that if that was a choice and they had availed themselves of it.
Speaker 2:Look at the situation here. It's a one in a zillion lightning strike from Mars, brian. Nobody in a right mind would have said this family conspired to create this call to lure the neighbors. This was apocalyptic cult shit, and so it was so outside of the realm of what this master deputy had seen that he fell for it. We're all victims of falling for it, and so it was so outside of the realm of what this master deputy had seen that he fell for it. We're all victims of falling for it. And you know what? He's an honored veteran master copper that made a mistake and this mistake cost him his life. So let's not turn it into a bad thing. Let's turn it into a good thing so we can learn Whenever the cues add up and tell you this makes no sense, you've got to give yourself extra time or you're on the wrong baseline. That's my.
Speaker 1:That I see what you're saying with your explanation here, and you know we keep reiterating what seemingly can be sound like simple phrases or simple principles to use or simple ways of looking at things. And you know it sounds intuitive. It's like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, all kinds of people talk about, yeah, you got to create some distance, you need more time, you know, but we don't actually get into how to do that and this doesn't. You know, a lot of people don't get into how to do that because they don't technically know. Right, it sounds like we can do that Technically. No, it sounds like we can do that. It sounds intuitive.
Speaker 1:Anyone we brief or talk to or anything, they always go well, shit, that makes a lot of sense to me. I see where you're getting at, but actually doing it is very different. That's why you need training. You're exactly right, it takes time and it takes practice. And it also because it's seemingly counterintuitive to how humans think in these situations, especially decision-making in extremists, or when there's some time constraint, or when there's some stress, or when there's some sort of a threat likelihood. You know, whatever the situation is, it sort of muddies the waters and it becomes seemingly more difficult to make a decision or take that step, and so it never seems to meet that threshold for action. Yes, so if I want to implement this or if I'm looking at something, that's from what I gather, a lot of times a lot of our questions that we get from people fall under that.
Speaker 1:It's like, when is when, does it meet the threshold for action? Because it's easy in some ways to take it on a case by case basis, which is why, then, people that you get into the, when you see this indicator, it means that it's like, well, no, it doesn't. With all of these, you know, uh, if all of these circumstances are here, then, yes, it does, but but if you change one of them, it change, you can change the outcome. But when, when, how do I know, like, what's a good measurement? If I'm just listening to this podcast and I'm going, well, this is kind of interesting to to get to that threshold for action, right, and because that's that's really the, the, the determined by the situation at hand, it's determined by the environment, the elements in the environment, the, all of the contributing factors in the situation.
Speaker 1:Because if, if I oversimplify it, I'll miss things, but if I kind of overcomplicate things. I'm never going to know how to look for things, I'm never going to know when to look for things, I'm never going to know when it meets that threshold for action. So it's sort of like I'm caught up in this sort of cognitive dilemma, in a sense, where there's a time element I'm here, I got called here to do something, or I'm taking a look at something. It's just a snapshot in time and I got to make decisions quickly and I think, because people think that way, that's actually what causes these a lot of times, right? So you're kind of saying like we have more time than we think or we're not looking at time in the correct manner. Is that kind of what-?
Speaker 2:You're exactly right on those points, and I would give you the additional point of saying it's more of a Mobius loop in my mind. So, uh, uh, uh, meaning that certain things become inevitable when you press temporal and you lack distance. So so the idea there is you're, uh, accelerating the situation because you think the situation is going to have a good outcome. If you accelerate it and like I'll give you an example that sounds so odd because you know I'm talking about the cop one, but let's apply that to Mary Kay Letourneau and Misty Clanton Roberts If they would have taken a knee and said okay, I'm 42 and the mayor of this town, this kid's 13 or 15 or 17. I'm feeding him drinks and I'm going to blow him, or whatever the situation was and I'm paraphrasing folks, don't get me tied down to gosh damn details you would have said wait a minute. Ok, this is inappropriate, this is not the relationship, this is not what relationships are founded on. And, brian, if you were to look for baseline comparisons, you would have said I know nobody in my circle of friends nobody, that's another mayor decided to quit and have kids with a 15-year-old. Okay, you understand, it just doesn't fit. So it's the round, peg square hole thing. So what's a baseline? A baseline is the measurement of a condition, of an environment, of a situation that is already in progress, and what we do is we take a snapshot of that at that point, at that time and at that place. And what we want to do is we want to use that comparison over time to observe changes. And changes can rise to the level of an anomaly, when, when it surprises us, when it's there, and it shouldn't be, when it's missing and we should see it, and those type of things get me to the kaleidoscope reference.
Speaker 2:The kaleidoscope is a constantly changing pattern or a sequence of objects that you see in an environment. But the idea is, if you watch long enough and if you turn enough times, you're going to get the same pattern. But the idea is that this tube containing the mirrors and the pieces of colored glass and everything seems too much information. This is why large models of information and data can work for us, but they have to be studied. And this goes to my point of the training. You're talking about people that go yeah, but give me three cues that I can look for all the time. Come to the training and we'll give you a thousand clues and guess what? You can pick the ones that you want to make the three, and they'll last your whole life.
Speaker 2:Everybody wants that list and they want to put it on their visor. But, brian, it just doesn't work that way. So when we look at the kaleidoscope, we have to pick it up and we have to start turning it, and if the patterns seem random and nothing's fitting together, right, we have to compare that. And all the other times I played with that kaleidoscope I saw ever-changing patterns. This time all the blues are sticking together and that doesn't make sense. If they would have done that in Florida, if they would have done that in Alabama, if they would have done that with the serial killers or the family annihilators I apologize, we would not have the situation when your baseline doesn't seem to fit for the situation. You have to change your OP or you have to change your baseline. So, in other words, you have to change the method of the information processing that you're getting, because something's wrong there. You're not processing the information correctly, or you have to change the baseline. What you're measuring that information against.
Speaker 1:So you said something that was interesting earlier where you said you know nature and I'm paraphrasing I think you said it's like this, but it's a nature reminds us of the important things you talk about dusk and dawn. Can you explain that a little bit further? Like what you mean by that that you know nature? You know nature reminds us of important things?
Speaker 2:So dawn is obviously an important thing. To get up, to move around, to establish whatever it is patterns that are going to help you live a long and healthy life. Why? Because it's good for the earth, it's good for procreation, it's good for families and clans. Your brain's chemistry is set up to support that. We have circadian rhythms that get us up and put us to sleep, and if we work too much on midnights, we don't get the allotted amount of rest. Okay.
Speaker 2:So all of those prompts are lined up to lead a prudent person to believe that it's important to get up in the morning and get out. A rooster crows in the morning. Okay, a rooster is audibly significant to us and wakes us up. Now somebody's going to go. Oh, that's all random shit that you're putting together, is it? I'm saying it's not, so prove me wrong.
Speaker 2:There's, the thing is go out there and take a look at all of those things that you have. Look, it's healthy to do this in the morning, but it's not healthy to do that and later in the day. What are the three things that you want to do? Three, two, one from our buddy quorum. Three hours before, don't eat anything. Two hours before. Don't drink anything. One hour before. Don't watch any television and you'll get good sleep. Why? Because sleep is essential to us. So when it gets dark, that's our message to our brain. You got to shut down for a while because we've been running at capacity all day long.
Speaker 2:And those hints come in such a repeated fashion and are reinforced by our brain's chemistry and our neural wiring that we have to pay attention to them. There, literally, is a goal behind all these things. Did you happen to see the Olympics at all and see the guy that set the record for the wall climb? And it looked like a spider going across the floor. It didn't even look real. So imagine the person that has to beat him. What are you up against? Well, but we know that there's certain limits. What I'm bringing up is there's certain limits of human performance. We're going to get to a threshold where we, just without chemicals or, you know, changing some factors in our environment, we're not going to be able to exceed those. But simple things in our environment, like the change of seasons, like the calm before the storm, those are God, buddha, vishnu Allah allows us to process those and predict, so we can take cover, so we can get hydrated, the symbols or the signals that your body gives off for dehydration. You think that's accidental. There's these cues in our environment.
Speaker 2:So when those cues are so obtuse, when those cues don't fit any pattern, so let me put it this way before I finish that sentence, I would say interview every copper that works in and around Lake County. Give them what this call was like at that moment, where the lady's running around, she's doing the Bible verses, she gives a false name and says that she's a prophet and all these other things, and there's noises in the house and the neighbor comes up and goes. I don't know what's going on, but they tried to lure me in. And then louder noises to lure you in. They've never had a situation like that before. So this novel situation.
Speaker 2:You know that how do we function in situations we don't have a file folder for we're more likely to get killed or seriously injured. In those there's not as much opportunity, there's much more danger. So we got to reestablish the baseline. That's the time to take a knee and go. Something is wrong here. Before we step across that threshold and you're saying, yes, but people may die. Yeah, but it shouldn't always be the coppers and first responders dying, should it? If you continue down that road to that IED likely position and you see indicators that would give you a reasonable suspicion that IED ambush is in place and you, low, crawl up and still poke it with your knife, who's at fault? You know, and that's hard to say. People hate me for making those comparisons, but I'm not talking about a person and their failure. I'm talking about how you should use that information and process it forward. That's the essence of situation awareness.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's the part that goes back to, we're not great at analysis, we're great at pattern recognition. So people talk about the situational awareness, you know, understanding the, the elements in your environment, perceiving them, understanding them, knowing what they mean and how they fit into place. But what we don't focus on is then okay, well, that the third element of that is projecting that forward, right.
Speaker 1:Going okay knowing what I know now, okay, what can I likely expect next? What is likely to occur next? What's the most dangerous thing? Am I gathering any evidence to support you know what, where this is going, or if this is what I expect, or you know, let's say this is a benign situation. If this is I'm talking to the mayor and you know she's not I don't think she is. You know, uh, you know molesting a kid, right? Well, what? What else should I expect to see then, if she's not doing that, and then what should I expect to see if she is doing that?
Speaker 1:And it's sort of that simple framework of going. I'm going to attempt to gather evidence that to both prove or disprove my hypothesis here, and then I can test that. As it goes, I can send that out into the world and see what comes back. Right, I can gather more artifacts and evidence.
Speaker 1:It's just long as I'm weighing this and that projection part can be seemingly difficult because it's like our own training, our own cognitive processes get in the way of us arriving at a reasonable conclusion or doing really, really good analysis. I mean, that's the thing is like everyone's an analyst, right, just go on social media or you know anywhere and everyone's going to give you their opinion, their analysis on something, but rarely is it ever good and rarely are people ever consistently good at their analysis. Right, because you have to, you need to have a process or a framework. So what it sounds like, because this is what you're saying and this is why I'm bringing this part up, because you brought up the nature of mind is one of the important things, but nature also kind of fucks with me, right, it kind of wants me to take it, because not everybody can survive it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So it's trying to make me take the simplest route or the easiest answer, or the path of least resistance. It's forcing me, it's continually forcing me down that road, and that's what I've done my whole life. And you know what, greg, I'm still. I'm alive right now. So why would this be any different? And and so that's that's always to me what it would, what I would describe as sort of the, the, the, the area, the problem, the sort of the crux of the problem there is going well, I'm set up to think and act and do things this way. But but what you're talking about, greg, and what we talked about, it's seemingly like well, that's counterintuitive. I have to spend, I have to burn extra calories, I have to. So how am I supposed to do this if? If it's not, let's go there. Yeah, so let's explain. Let's go there it's seemingly at a topical level right now.
Speaker 1:Just what I I want to say is that is that it's like you know, it's almost like you're you're. Why are you talking about it this way? Why are you teaching this? Why are you going through this process? Because if it's counterintuitive to how humans operate, then it's really never going to be successful. I'm never going to fully grasp it, which isn't true, but but you see, topically what I'm getting at no, no, no, I'd like you to sort of address that.
Speaker 2:You're spot on. What the point is is that complacency will lie to you. Okay, laziness is much easier than going to the gym and working out and eating, right. So we fall for those traps and then we tell everybody around us well, it's nature. Now, that's not nature.
Speaker 2:Nature is all about survival, survival of the fittest and the fattest and the. You know this and that and all those other things, but what we do is we have a fundamental attribution error where we say I'm just fine, I fit in, great, what's it going to hurt me? And the more we do that, that pattern reinforces itself, even if it's wrong. Hey, listen, smoking is not going to take but a couple of days off in my life and I really enjoy smoking. Those lies that our brain tells us are reinforced with chemistry that we provide. Our brain doesn't provide it. Our brain doesn't yell and go hey, go back and sleep in the cave. What it does is it reinforces us to go back and sleep in the cave when we choose that option. Do you get what I'm trying to say? So we have to knowingly go into that dark cave and lay down on the pillow and the brain goes hey, this is wonderful. And now our cortisol and dopamine start messing with us.
Speaker 2:So I'll give you an example of exactly that that you can understand in the Misty Clanton Roberts caper. So I want you to understand everybody that these are merely allegations that this former mayor had sexual relations with the juvenile. She hasn't been convicted of anything. They're conducting an investigation. Yes, she's been arrested. Okay, but here's the thing. I would guarantee that what Brian said is absolutely correct. What happened is she had sexual intercourse with a juvenile victim while she was mayor, and there's a bunch of things wrong with that, but the idea is that I don't think that she did it because she's a pedophile. I think what happens is that abusers like her and Mary Kay Letourneau- what you have.
Speaker 2:There is you have somebody that who, early in their life, they got their emotional needs met through sexual behavior and there was something lacking. They're going through a divorce or they had a bad experience with a man or a woman or their significant other, and now, all of a sudden, they get this position of trust which brings with it power and authority. And now, all of a sudden, what happens is I'm cool, I'm in charge. I see this person that back when I was younger I certainly would have banged. And then what happens is now the inappropriate relationship doesn't start with the sex, it starts with. Now I'm going to cross a boundary and I'm going to talk about my personal life with this juvenile, and then that person's going to share some of their stuff, and then I'm going to share a text, and then it's going to continue to get inappropriate because now it's going to be kind of a date where we meet somewhere.
Speaker 2:Look, if you're doing it clandestinely and you're doing it out of the public purview, it's likely wrong. And so what happens is all those environmental triggers and the nature of life telling us this is somehow wrong. Guys used to call it and, pardon the vernacular, it's a street term. Guys used to call it the guilty dick syndrome. They'd come to me and they'd go hey, I'm cheating on my old lady, but I can't get an erection and I go. That's the guilty dick syndrome. What's happening is your brain and your body are telling you this is wrong. You've got a significant other. Go home to whoever that person is.
Speaker 2:So what happened with Misty? It didn't happen all at once. She wasn't in love with this person for 25 years and decided to become a mayor and as soon as they grew up. So the same thing with the ambush Little clues were missed. And what happens is when we step back and we look at it have you ever seen pointillism? Have you ever seen a painting by Seurat? When you get really close to it, hell, ferris Bueller, a perfect example. When you get really close to it, you can't tell what it is. But the further you step back, all of a sudden things come into view. And again, I'm not bagging on Lake County. They did their best, they're heroes. What a great job. And they did it for the right reasons to save lives.
Speaker 2:But sometimes I read the other day a copper that died around here, and he died almost 80 years ago and nobody knows his name anymore. And how did he die? On the way to his house from shopping, he was driving around in a vehicle and he saw what he thought was a drunk driver. He said look, this guy's so bad he's going to kill somebody. So, with his family in the car, he makes the traffic stop, walks up and the guy drives off, with him hanging onto the car and he dies right in front of his family. That's again a hero, brian.
Speaker 2:But what would conventional wisdom tell us in that situation? The danger, just like with Roberts, is raising, and if we allow the danger to keep raising and we don't do anything about it, that level, that pot, is going to boil over, and so what we have to do is we have to take those things off the heat and make an entry into that house. Seemed like the right thing at the time and upon retrospect we'd see it wasn't the right thing. And let's go to Kendrick. Kendrick is the Alabama guy, the schizophrenic that you were talking about earlier. Five counts of capital murder.
Speaker 2:Every single person said that he had become more and more deranged, not only over the years, but in the few days before he shot him all dead, and people were commenting on that let's go back to Ohio with Chad Dorman. Chad Dorman's wife said you know, it was a setup. All of a sudden he started talking about the three boys and how much he loved them and how it's going to be hard to kill one of the boys, more so than the other two, and he kept luring them into the house and then to the back bedroom. Then he went to the closet and got the gun and the whole time she said it's like watching a movie. She knew what was going to happen and she couldn't. Well, I'm telling you she's not the only one. I'm telling you the family that staged that ambush in Lake County gave up signals and the neighbors knew and their friends knew and there was leakage at school. I'm saying with Dorman and Kendrick I'm saying there was leakage all over the place. And I'm saying that with Mary Kay Letourneau and Missy Roberts there was leakage.
Speaker 2:Now you're going to say, because Brian likes taking devil's advocate, you're going to say sometimes, hey, listen, well, these are all linked to mental illness. Yeah, we all have a version of mental illness there somewhere. What happens is that we tend to want to go for immediate gratification now rather than waiting for things, and that's how we can get into the trick bag. And the same thing with the ambush. The woman lived through the ambush and she's in jail now, so hopefully she'll talk more. But Kendrick and Dorman, they both lived through the ambushes as well, and we have to look out for that, brian, because trading our lives for somebody else's lives might seem noble, but in many instances it's unnecessary. Now, some things are unpredictable. Today I walk out of my front door, I get hit by an asteroid. I'm going across the street and a guy's looking down at his GPS and he clipped me Right. I mean, come on.
Speaker 1:That that's yeah, and that that that's the thing. It's like the, the, the, the asteroid is, a is a perfect example. It's like, well, no, technically, we that that could have, that that's tracked and they're going to know exactly where it's going to impact. Now, that information might not have gotten to you in time, but there's, there's. Probably I may have disregarded it, right, exactly, yeah, and meaning, um, having the sort of mindset of everything is predictable helps, um, it helps me see things clearer. Right, it helps me look at this and not feel this helpless, like, well, you know, I got to be prepared because you know this could happen anytime, anyplace. It's like, well, no, if I look at, everything is is, um, you know, like you said, nature reminds us of the important things. There's environmental indicators that I can look for and feel and sense and understand intuitively as a human or instinctually as a human, and then the more you know, or practice, or or, or, the better I get at it. It becomes more intuitive, um, but some of this is uh, kind of like the, the language we use to talk about it in societally, and how we justify things or how we make ourselves feel better. You know, like you, you brought up the mental health thing. It's like, okay, well, that's, there's no real. Everyone has something that is causing some turbidity or cognitive dissonance in their life. There's something that you've dealt with or haven't dealt with or deal with and is an ongoing base. Everyone has something that affects the way they act and behave, and so sometimes the language can kind of it, it it isn't used in a in a very, um, constructive manner to really understand these things and like, well, like, even said, like the, the, you know, the darwin and in the view of darwinian view of biology, and and and uh and human evolution, and it's like, oh, it's survival of the and and and uh and human evolution. And it's like, oh, it's survival of the fittest. And what it really meant was, you know, species are just attempting to survive. So, so, not that, but that's not at an individual level, that's at a species level and it's not.
Speaker 1:When people think survival of the fittest, they think, okay, the biggest, baddest, strongest or whatever you know, and it's like, no, no, it's, it's the fittest is like who can adapt the best, and that adaptation can come in a number of different ways. Maybe your species needs to literally get physically stronger or bigger, or maybe it just needs to get smarter and needs to grow and develop more intellectual capability, whatever it is. And we get down to this individual level and then it's not as clear because you're part of a much, much larger system. So when you look at things like that, it's like okay, but that's as a species as a whole, so it's not really like I can just be stronger, better, faster than everyone out there and I'll be good. It's like no, no, no, that's not possible. And so the hard you know dose of reality that sort of nature can play in biology and you know physics can play on you is there's parameters in there.
Speaker 1:There's certain things that you cannot control, and I think people believe that one of those things that they cannot control is time. And I disagree, right, Because one you can well, language is a perfect example is because you know time is sort of this construct of language and how we talk about it and how we sense it and how we experience it and how we sense it and how we experience it. But we get in these moments and they can be very overpowering where it's like well, shit, I have to do something right now and we got to make this decision and this needs to happen, and often it rarely does need to, and when it is something that needs to be acted on instantaneously and immediately. I go back to your comment of sort of nature reminds us of, or it's so obvious, right, it's so obvious that you have to do something right now. It's kind of like you don't have to train for that. You're going to know when to make that decision. It's the training and the reflection and the analysis has to occur on the seemingly benign, the seemingly obvious or the seemingly sort of like everyday minutia and understanding that. And if I understand the everyday minutia, the things, the normalcy, the baseline that you're talking about, what should happen and what shouldn't happen typically, given these set of circumstances, if I just get really, really good at that, these nonstandard observations or those things that are different, will become clearer, more obvious and more apparent to me when they come up, regardless of the situation that I find myself in.
Speaker 1:You use those three examples and a lot of people go these are completely different things. You need different tools to go after these and it's a different. It's like look, I, I, I get it. It's a different situation. But if I look at the foundational elements and what we're talking about using those lenses. It's not because that doesn't matter. There were certain indicators here in all of these.
Speaker 1:And what again? It goes back to well, we have to look for someone who's in a position of power to be. It's like no, look, look, some things are because that person is driven towards that behavior and some are a. You become a product we all do of our environment and the situation you're in.
Speaker 1:You'll see that a lot too, with like uh, when people get famous or something like that man, they were no one, they were this, and they struggled their whole life. Then, of a sudden, they started getting attention. Now they got money. Now they got people around them, now they got this. Now they go down this, this path of just like, oh, I like this. And then one thing leads to another and yeah, then now they're predating on people or they they hadn't done that previously in their life. That was a, that was, that was a process that maybe took maybe it took that mayor or mary k letourneau years and years and years to get to that point. And so when you but then for that it's not the diabolical grooming, I mean and then that behavior becomes reinforced. So if you look like like what's his name? Harvey Weinstein in Hollywood or whatever, right it was like.
Speaker 1:OK, what was he doing that when he was broke? No one had heard of him. No, he didn't have the power to do that right. He had no ability to. He didn't have access to victims, but he didn't construct his life in a manner where that was the end goal. No, he wanted to be the big time Hollywood producer, who's who, and the big time guy, everyone coming to him.
Speaker 1:So then, what comes along with that type of person or individual or behavior? Well, there's these other influences that come in, so they don't all go. People don't all go down that path. In fact, they rarely go down that path. Or or it becomes a sort of this, this sort of a spectrum of behaviors, I guess, or or continuum, I guess, would be a better word. But where, okay, now I'm in charge, now I'm in power, now I'm getting a drunk on power, now I'm doing these other things I shouldn't, then it's maybe just an inappropriate relationship, where it's just not physical yet. But then I kind of liked that and that was exciting. My brain got a reward from that, and now it keeps going and it keeps going and keeps going, and unless some outside force acts on that, that's just going to continue to happen, but maybe I just continue to like take over every company and I'm a ruthless ceo and I'm a multi-billionaire you're not going to choose even more companies?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, but but that's all, that's now. That's all I'm doing, though I'm not, I'm not using that to to, you know, sexually assault, you know, minors or something. I'm just, I'm just a, my, my, I get, I get my reaction and my titillation, my excitement from this thing, so they can sort of spiral out in different ways, and that's why I bring it up, because we try to oversimplify some of these things when we don't need to, and it's unhelpful, and a lot of the language we use for that isn't very helpful.
Speaker 2:So let's do this. First of all, if you're listening to the sound of my voice, write down on your yellow pad 40.00. Go back to that when you're listening to this podcast. Everything else is a waste, unless you hear Brian's words starting at about 40, where he talks about this and he puts it in clear, concise chunks for how how to do this. Now, what I'll do is I'll go back to you and I'll say this I'm not very profound. You guys know me. I'm an old, balding, overweight guy. That's very opinionated, but I've learned some things through my life. So I'm going to give you an HG Wells, and that is you are your own time machine.
Speaker 2:From the earliest parts of me teaching any of my students, I always would quote stuff like Peabody and Sherman in the Wayback Machine. Why? Because you got to get historical perspective. How many times, brian, do I bring that up when we're talking about a new client or going somewhere or doing this? What's the historical precedence that we're set? What's going on here and there? Well, those things are important because if you're your own time machine, you can regulate time, because time is nebulous anyway, and the idea is that it's not constant. It's not consistent, so the idea is. You can play with it, you can manipulate it. Science is good with that. Physics understands that. So that means you can give yourself the gift of time and distance. And it is that easy. It is easy saying no, I'm not going through that door right now, I'm going to take cover. I'm calling more people. What do we tell kids in combat? All the time I told them don't go into there unless you know you would never want to go someplace that you can't send a drone, a camera, a bullet, a missile, a robot. You get what I'm trying to say. So why are we now changing that?
Speaker 2:And, brian, when we talk about Peabody and Sherman, I want everybody for a minute to think of the Great Barrier Reef. What happens is all this stuff. There's a reaction that starts building it and then more dead stuff piles on, and then there's more microbes and the sunlight hits it and there's a reaction. And what happens is it metastasizes and metabolizes until you've got this big reef. That's a baseline. It metastasizes and metabolizes until you got this big reef. That's a baseline. And there's stuff that's stuck to your baseline that's old, that's shit. That was just you glancing at an article rather than reading the full scientific breakdown and that stuff is not useful, as Brian says, and as a matter of fact, I would go the extra step to say not only is it not useful, it's harmful.
Speaker 2:So you have to, like ants at a picnic, get up and shake off that gosh damn blanket that you're on, to get some of the crumbs and the ants off and get back to tabula rasa, because at tabula rasa you can start the etch-a-sketch, you can start putting things back in place and going. Wait a minute, this is consistently wrong. This woman being outside and this thing, the Lake County thing. To me, brian felt like, when I'm reading through the timeline, the distraction for a pickpocket I'm going to bump into you. The pickpocket's going to get close, they're going to work. There was all this street magician feel to it. So when it feels that wrong, you got to stop and you said something at the end. I'm just paraphrasing part of your argument to give it to Hoberman the 360 view. You said something at the end.
Speaker 2:I want to take you into the mind of a copper. A copper has never been anything. Now, all of a sudden, he gets a badge. And what I mean by that? Yeah, you were good in high school and shit. But this is your first real job and all of a sudden, people have to stop for you, people have to listen for you, and I don't care if you're a boy or a girl. You've got a gun and you've got a badge and there's all this power. You can kill somebody on the street if you feel it's necessary. Congress has to come together to put somebody to death, you know.
Speaker 2:So all of a sudden you go up to dispatch console and you're going to get a call for the night and the dispatcher is same sex or other sex, whatever it is you're attracted to I'm attracted to furries and that person across from you says, hey, good job out there tonight. And man, all of a sudden that dopamine and you've got the oxytocin and you're liking that voice. And then you go out and you do something on the street and you come back in and they go that was great. Next thing, you know, you're in the Motel 6 nailing them. Okay, same thing.
Speaker 2:You go to the Cabbage Patch or you're at the Ram's Horn or whatever restaurant that is, and you know what? That waitress that's got six jobs and three kids at home from two failed marriages, or boy or girl again, I don't give a shit about it is nice to you. And you know what, when you go home at night after midnight, your old lady's gone, or she can't build breakfast for you, or she doesn't know what you do on the street, so you just can't communicate. Well, you see how that starts to form where, all of a sudden, brian, that becomes the reality. But it's not the reality. So it's easy to cheat when you allow your emotional mindset to hijack the baseline rather than look at the facts.
Speaker 2:I'm a wonderful, loving father or mother, I'm a good cop, and that means that there's an ethical dilemma I'm going to be put into. And when these other people are nice to me, it doesn't mean they want to bang me. It means I have to be tougher and smarter and stronger. You see how that works. So I can apply these same principles that we talk about in my personal life in my professional life in a situation of danger or a situation of opportunity. You know how I feel about stoicism, and my daughter's a philosophy doctor. Okay, and the reason I don't like that stoicism is it only applies to my internal baseline and you say, well, yeah, you're external because how you treat other people.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't, because I look at a situation and I say what is the baseline telling me, where's the anomalies and what can I do with this information? That's my how. I don't need the why. I understand that. The why is going to be present for me. That's the changing of the seasons and the dawn and why the wind blows differently before a storm and the barometric pressure drops. Those are all triggers and we were meant to grow our brain so the barometric pressure dropping or rising before a hurricane would warn us. We didn't have the brain to do that when we were a child. We didn't have the brain to do that 500 or 1,000 or 3,000 years ago. So our evolution has to be cognitive. It has to be that we're smarter than the average bear and then we'll be able to overcome these situations and see those cues before the situation occurs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, humans, we haven't. We have not had a software update in a really really long time.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's so profound.
Speaker 1:So we now have more data and more information that we have to process that we never had to before. Even you know, 30 years ago, let alone 300 years ago, absolutely, I mean, you never 300 years ago, you didn't know what happened outside of your village, and maybe you heard once a month about something that occurred or whatever. But, like I mean and I'm exaggerating you still had lines of communication. There were still, you know, that happening, but it was so much slower, which gave me more time to understand and process. Well, now we seemingly have so much stuff and so much information out there that our hardware system and our operating system is what it has always been and that software sort of takes a lot longer to update and it's always behind the curve, right, just like on your phone it's like, oh, we released this, and then we realized on your phone it's like, oh, you know, we released this and then we realized like, hey, there's all these bugs, so we got to fix it and then we got to update it. But that update doesn't come until after something happens, right, until there's some exposure that's been or something that's been exposed. That was an issue, and you know it's funny because you brought it up. You know it's, uh, the it's. It's funny because you you brought it up.
Speaker 1:You know you gave the sort of law enforcement example from your career and and it's, it was actually a great example of of your sort of baseline shifting, because here you have all of this power and authority and it's significant, but you've been doing it so long you don't even realize where you're at. I mean, it reminded me of even being in the marine corps, like in iraq, and we're in someone's house and they're like, yeah, these people are up to something. They're kind of acting shady. I don't like this. It's like, well, I don't know, maybe like uh, maybe like a bunch of dudes uh flew you know 10 000 miles and walked into their home with guns and I'm setting up claymores and doing this. So maybe that has something to do a little.
Speaker 1:There's a little bit the way they're acting this is not typical for any human being on the face of the planet, no matter where you're at. So right, maybe, just maybe that's input, but because of this is something we were doing every single day, day in and out, like it just was so lost on us, and that's very difficult for everyone, and I don't care what your profession is or what you're doing. I mean that's like that's the teachers who get burned out or, you know, forget about what they're doing, and a doctor not having good bedside manner. It's like, hey, you know, yes, you've been a cancer doctor for a really long time, you're really good at what you do, but this is the first time this person has any experience with cancer and it's in their body. Like, you know what I mean it's?
Speaker 1:It's it's something that we just fall victim to as humans because of all these, just because of that. That's how, how life is in a sense, and so you know, getting back to what you're talking about, about time and distance, and this temporal element is is so it's really fascinating and intriguing to me, and we don't have a good concept of it as humans and I don't think we really understand how much we can influence it, which is why I love your quote. Well, it's not yours, but you are your own time machine, right you? Actually? You get to lay your finger on the scale, you get to process how that happened and that can be done.
Speaker 2:And where you get on and where you get off.
Speaker 1:Very ineffective. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, process how that happened and and that can be done and where you get on and where you get off very ineffective. Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, we, we covered, we covered a lot here and we talked a lot about some of the issues that that impact us. Um, but you know, it's, it's the. The big takeaway for me is always is is is time and distance, which we can say over and over again and people can say in different training that they do or or how to approach things. But it's, if you don't have some sort of process to know what that is, it's going to be very difficult, but it is something I mean. I, I I use that with with, you know, insurgent too, because she's getting older and then she's gone.
Speaker 1:She's on Christmas or summer break and she was just gone for a while and she goes and stays with her grandparents and, you know, gets to be free range kid for a while and then she comes back home. So free range. Well, me and McKaylee had to have that talk. Right, it's like all right, she's coming back because she's all you know, we're all excited she's home, she brings so much energy to the house and mckaylee obviously missed her so much and so did I. But then it was like, okay, we, we got to give her some space for a few days because there's going to be a huge adjustment from which she was just operated the speed she was operating at it to now you're at home and you're not in school yet and we have chores and we have this stuff. So it's like we're going to give her a few days to get through all that. Before I start saying, all right, this is what you have to do every day, this is what you know, this is what you're, this is what I need you to do in the yard, this is what you're going to do to prepare for school. Like now, you, you, you have to use that sort not used to getting told what to do for the last month because she's just been running around having fun. So we have to sort of ease into that. And you know that's sort of with everything, and we all jump to this and you know we have these checks and balances that you have to sort of instill with other people Like that.
Speaker 1:One's a perfect example. Like me and my wife had to sit down and do this together. You and I do that with different stuff, where I'm on top of something or working with a client that we're cooking and we're moving forward and this is going. I'm like, hey, I want to get in this and you're like, and you'll do the? Yeah, no, we do. But do we need to do that right now? Or do Do we want to just start here? And I'm like, ah, shit, you're right, let's chunk this a little bit. Let's not get overwhelmed, let's not throw everything at them. We have time here, like this, isn't.
Speaker 1:So you have to sort of have that person to do it, or a way to look at it, even internally yourself, to go. Is this the right thing to do right now? It goes back to even our good friend, brian Willis, who's an amazing guy. He said you know, I love, I love when he sends me an email, because I see it at the bottom, at bottom of his email and says, remember what's important now? And I'm like, damn, that's, it's so. It's just like you're so right with that statement, like what is important right now.
Speaker 2:Brian, time is like a river it's constantly in flux, it's constantly in motion, so that's why we can't just put our finger on it and hold it, because all that water behind it's got to come from somewhere and it's going to go around and it's going to dig a channel. Look at the Royal Gorge. So you're always really smart when it comes to coming to me with ideas that I hadn't considered in that way before, and then together we put them together and we come up with a great answer, because we have answered so many really really hard questions for clients, and I love that we have the ability to do that. And when we don't know, we go to experts. What does that mean? Well, we know about large language models and we know about large data sets, but the idea is that two things that will get you in a trick bag faster than anything is failure to process that information correctly, in other words, the time that you're putting on the analysis and what you do with that information in the moment, and the point of that is comms communication, internal and external communication, team communication on these issues. You got to tell somebody this is wrong, this doesn't feel right. Why is she going with this kid into the closet? But we don't articulate that. And it's not because we don't have the words or the lexicon, brian, it's because we want to stay out of things. We don't know how to approach those things and I'll give you just two quick examples. I know we're running over an hour, but let me just tell you PT Barnum comes up with the idea of the solid Muldoon.
Speaker 2:He's in Europe, he comes back to the United States, he takes some elk bones, some monkey bones, some cow bones, puts them together with Portland cement and he tells everybody hey, take a look at what this is, this is some creature that's never been there. Charges a nickel, everybody comes through and sees it. And then finally the doctor even certifies yes, this is part human and part whatever else. He paid that guy off. That guy eventually on his deathbed said yeah, barnum, put it up to it. So Barnum makes a ton of money on that and it's very famous. What does he do? He goes out further into the West, past the Pony Express, past the telegraph line, past information Brian, how information was communicated and he goes just to the edge of that where people didn't know about the solid Muldoon. And he does it again and he goes just to the edge of that where people didn't know about the solid Muldoon, and he does it again and he goes I found the missing link and he digs it up in some Western state and people come in and he makes a million again.
Speaker 2:Brian, we can't touch time. We can manage time, we can influence time in our own lives, we can be our own time machine, but the one thing that we can manage in our lives that'll make it better is processing information and communicating the results. That's how predictive analysis works. I tend to see this pattern. I've analyzed it and it leads me to believe that we're in a shit sandwich or it's coming up gold or whatever else is going on In each of the three situations we talked about today. If somebody were to communicate their suspicions, you would have found out what was going on before it occurred and perhaps been able to mitigate. Perhaps, because you never know, but I would rather have the chance and take the chance than not have the chance.
Speaker 1:That's the thing. You're working with probabilities and likelihood at that point. You know you're working with probabilities and likelihoods at that point. So I'm always going to take something that you know. I want to increase my odds every time, and not just statistically.
Speaker 2:Right Historical perspective has to come in. It has to be a situation that, ethically, you're feeling comfortable with you get what I'm trying to say. All those things have to fall in the line. Feeling comfortable with you, get what I'm trying to say. All those things have to fall in the line. It can't just be statistics, because sometimes statistics can show something that's less weighted than something else. So you have to be the arbiter of fact, you have to be the person that steps in and says this thing is more important than these. And again, in all these three situations, if that would occur, the person wouldn't have gotten a trick bag in the first place. And it's my just personal opinion on that and my professional opinion as a matter of fact.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we covered a lot today, so if you're listening, if you're still at the tail end of this, please reach out to us with any questions. Obviously, you can always go to the Patreon site as well and reach us on there. We've got more information on there and we'd love to get some feedback or what you thought and what you like, what you didn't like, or need us to clarify something, because we can always do that and hopefully got some good takeaways on this. And, yeah, any other final words, greg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everybody in Lake County, you're a hero. I'm sorry this situation happened to you. Other coppers in the nation, let's pay it forward On duty roll call. Let's not get in a trick bag.
Speaker 1:All right On that. Thanks everyone for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the discussion and don't forget that training changes behavior.
