How To Talk To Anyone

Did you know that mastering the art of small talk could change your life? Join us for a fascinating journey into the world of effective communication and information gathering, where Greg and I bring our contrasting styles to the forefront. From hostage negotiations to courtroom dramas, you'll discover how leveraging the power of small talk can transform your communication skills.
 
 During the episode we explain the power of building trust through common ground as we share valuable lessons learned from personal experiences and family anecdotes. Whether it’s identifying key decision-makers, balancing confidence with authenticity, or engaging in casual conversation about shared interests, you'll learn how these vital skills can make social interactions safer and more meaningful. 
 
 Finally, we offer practical strategies for navigating social interactions with humor and authenticity. From the importance of situational awareness in everyday conversations to advanced techniques for de-escalation in high-stress environments, our insights are both relatable and actionable. Through real-life examples, you'll gain a deeper understanding of how to read a room, engage others effectively, and build rapport. Tune in to enhance your ability to connect, gather valuable information, and create positive human connections in every interaction.

Thank you so much for tuning in, we hope you enjoy the episode and please check out our Patreon channel where we have a lot more content, as well as subscriber only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don’t forget that Training Changes Behavior!

Transcript

Brian Marren: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. Did you know that mastering the art of small talk could change your life? Join us for a fascinating journey into the world of effective communication and information gathering, where Greg and I bring our contrasting styles to the forefront. From hostage negotiations to courtroom dramas, you'll discover how leveraging the power of small talk can transform your communication skills. During the episode, we explain the power of building trust through common ground, as we share valuable lessons learned from personal experiences and family anecdotes. Whether it's identifying key decision makers, balancing confidence with authenticity or engaging in casual conversation about shared interests, you'll learn how these vital skills can make social interactions safer and more meaningful. Finally, we offer practical strategies for navigating social interactions with humor and authenticity. From the importance of situational awareness in everyday conversations to advanced techniques for de-escalation in high-stress environments. Our insights are both relatable and actionable. Through real-life examples, you'll gain a deeper understanding of how to read a room, engage others effectively and build rapport. Tune in to enhance your ability to connect, gather valuable information and create positive human connections in every interaction. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the episode and please check out our Patreon channel, where we have a lot more content as well as subscriber-only episodes of the show. Enjoy the podcast or kindly ask that you leave us a review and, more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don't forget that training changes behavior. All right, hello everyone. Thanks for hopping on with us and good morning, greg.

Brian Marren: 1:25

Today we are getting into a little bit about communication and kind of information gathering and how we do that. But the big thing I wanted to get into with this episode is for those of you who don't know and haven't met like us in person or anything. You know, greg, one of the things that you always do is you, you talk to everyone and, like everywhere we go, you're always striking up conversations with people or getting into stuff or asking questions about things and part of just your, your personality, and you're extremely outgoing and everything like that. But you know, and what we glean from that is what I've found is that we often get little nuggets of information that end up being useful. It's almost like, uh, uh, what was that when? Wayne's world, where I was like man, I'm glad I met that guy, or something like that.

Brian Marren: 2:13

And you know, we, you find something where it's like, um, oh, the, when he, when he met the, when he was getting gas I think it was the second one he's like, oh yeah, you go down to this street and go down to that tree and then that's where the church is.

Brian Marren: 2:24

And it's like, oh yeah, you go down to this region, go down to that tree and then that's where the church is and it's like, wow, that was extremely helpful at the time or something. So the reason why I want to discuss this is like we end up getting a lot of really great information from it, but you're obviously both a natural at it but have also had different training on communication. You know, when you get to like hostage rescue uh, hostage negotiator, excuse me, that you've done before in the past and even having to like testify in court, you have different experiences that have also built on it, where I take a different approach and, just because my personality is different, where you're gregarious and outgoing, I'm like everyone please leave me alone like it's just a little bit, a little bit different.

Greg Williams: 3:04

I like being well, it's like the.

Brian Marren: 3:07

I, like you know the sniper reconnaissance surveillance element.

Greg Williams: 3:12

Right, it's not an accident Kind.

Brian Marren: 3:12

of being hidden in the shadows. Yeah, so you know there's a couple different ways that I approach it, so I can. I want to give mine after you talk about yours, but for the listeners going to give mine after you talk about yours, but for the listeners. If you're tuning in right now, I want to give you some takeaways that you can use. And the big thing is trying to study one style of doing anything. Whether you're reading about communication or leadership or something it's like look, read everything that's out there, watch it, take it in, and you kind of got to find what works for you, because if you try to do something that doesn't fit your personality, your character and who you are, it comes across as just weird, like it's odd. And you know, because it's that time of the year, we're in the middle of a presidential race.

Brian Marren: 3:59

Politicians are a great example because some of them have to work on that stuff. Some are more natural speakers versus than others and and you'll see when, like they're being like robotic or doing too much, and it looks odd because it's not their personality. But some PR person told them like hey, you got to do this more, move your arms this way, and it's just so unnatural and it looks weird. So we we've seen that stuff before, but I just because it's so relevant right now you can kind of see that where some are better speakers than others. But I want to go to you, greg, and first I kind of want to ask you, you know, why you do this. Why do you go talk to everyone? And we'll get into then kind of how after that, but you know, I think back was this something like you kind of always did as a kid and then you honed it as you got older, or what is it about that? That, that why you do that yeah.

Greg Williams: 4:48

So first of all, great topic, great question. The uh smoke and mirrors are going to part this morning and we're going to get a look and and see that oz is actually a guy from you know, kansas, not not some super magician. Because you used the word natural and this is one of the few times that I'll tell you I may appear as a natural now, but it was a long road to get to where I am now, and as a kid and even now you know me better than almost anybody that I can think of. And you know I'm an introvert. You know that I would rather hole up in the hotel and read a book than go out and party and do all the other things. That's just not me. But I love our recount. I love our pre-deployment site surveys. I love those because it gets me in that Jeopardy mindset of what is St Louis. I love that. You know I remember Secrets of the Jeopardy Champions. We're going around the house now.

Greg Williams: 5:47

Secrets of the Jeopardy Champions was one of the first books I read about Jeopardy and it said that the best champions on Jeopardy were well-traveled. They loved traveling places. But that's not enough. You can travel places and never get out of the airport. You can travel places and never know the people or the food, and I'll take you back. Just, you talk about a memory and emotion link.

Greg Williams: 6:08

You remember when you and I were in Frankfurt and a plane was delayed and we literally went around trying to find absolutely everything that we could do about the culture and about the people and what was different and everything? In that time, before you know, we had left Saudi Arabia, we had to catch the flight in Frankfurt and then coming back here, and we didn't. We used that time. We were exhausted, we were filthy, we were trying to get on a plane but we said, okay, now it's time for the street interviews, now it's time for the hey.

Greg Williams: 6:35

Uh, you know what's with the gummy bears? And did you know that a Smurf was called a schlumpf in Germany? That's the kind of shit that keeps me going, because you never know where in that you will find that gem, and you brought that up as well. That was genius for doing that, but as an introvert, you have to literally force yourself. I read a book when I was younger, from G Gordon Liddy called Will, and Liddy was afraid of thunderstorms and lightning, so he lashed himself to a tree in his yard during a thunderstorm. He was afraid of the rats in the basement, so he lashed himself to a tree in his yard during a thunderstorm. He was afraid of the rats in the basement, so he went down and took a broom handle and beat a rat to death after cornering it, and then cooked it and ate it. Now that's extreme, but he overcame his introversion.

Brian Marren: 7:16

You see what I'm trying to say. Get your point, yeah.

Greg Williams: 7:18

He also spent time in prison and watergate scandal. But other than those things, right, you know, you got to balance right. But so so, being a natural, my thing was one watch my dad. My dad was a Marine and led into every room with his chest and his head. You know, here I come, here comes a Marine. What are you guys up to over there? You know whose house is this I talk to. And my dad used to give me the little tidbits too. He was like, if you just walk in and just start talking to people, that's not enough. You got to figure out who the right person to talk to is. Who's the check writer, who owns this place, who's got a stake in the game? And I was like, well, why would that be important? And dad would lay it out for me. He's like look, if a person's a natural, if you don't feel like you're doing it, uh, uh, uh, if it's not, if you're acting, they'll find you out because right away they'll put their hackles up and go.

Greg Williams: 8:13

Okay, what's?

Brian Marren: 8:14

this scam I've seen them.

Greg Williams: 8:15

I've seen those scams before right.

Brian Marren: 8:17

I mean, even even when you're not, even when you're not, uh, trying to like that, and that's why you're not trying to get over on right for you. But but exactly, if you're trying to do that, and that's why you're not trying to get over on right, but if you're trying to do that stuff, it comes across as not natural and so, like you see it as like okay that you're being disingenuous, that the fix is in, even though you're just trying to be a better, be more sociable.

Greg Williams: 8:36

Yeah, exactly, and you've met both of my brothers. So my brother Brian, biggest introvert I've ever met in my entire life, brian's sport was swimming Talk about being alone. All the time. Brian rode a motorcycle Okay, talk about being alone. No room for other passengers in there, right, and as cool as he was, he played red star, white star with Greg Daniels up in his bedroom for days at a time. Sometime they would have a cooler up there playing this board game that's on math and a big dice and all these other things about warfare, you know. And the idea is that you've met Jeff as well, and Jeff never wants to be in front of the camera. Jeff is always three layers back and he's been an executive of Dictatory Protection for 40 years and nobody would know it meeting him because he's not that guy, you know.

Brian Marren: 9:25

I don't even think he has a website, exactly, protection for 40 years and nobody would know it meeting him, because he's not that guy, you know.

Greg Williams: 9:28

So. So our whole family is that, uh, matt black rhino liner, subdued shit that you see, but it's not out there. So I learned early. Okay, we would go into houses in Detroit in areas that were rough, where the people didn't have a lot of money and have to go into basements and pour bleach so we would be able to breathe fresh air and change the asbestos on a non-functioning furnace. So the first thing is that people are very skeptical and then you're running into other people that aren't in on. You're there to fix the furnace, so what's going on? So you had to assuage those fears so you didn't have this high feeling of anxiety. So even as a kid, I would find out very quickly what in the environment is stuff that you can talk to. So you don't go into a house in the inner city where you're in a basement and water up to your ankles and go, hey, you got a beautiful house or nice yard, because you're going to immediately piss somebody off or sound like you're being sarcastic. So you had to pick something else.

Greg Williams: 10:23

So, you see tools, or you see a bench, or you see, uh, you know, toys that are, you know, handmade or fashioned in a different way. Or you see a swing set and you go, wow, that's in really good shape. And you mention it. You go notice the swing set on the way in. Uh, those chains look brand new, seemingly nothing. But the idea is that somebody worked on that, somebody made that, somebody took the time to fix that for somebody, and right away you're searching for common ground. Now you might not hit on the first one. That that's why there's so many at bats. When you're playing baseball, if it was just the one at bat and that was your only game that you were, playing for the season you know.

Greg Williams: 11:02

So what are your stats? One, uh, but the idea is that what you do is then you measure, because we're huge on interpersonal right. So you gotta see, are the chemicals firing in the brain? Did the eyes go up? Did the person show that little smirk where you see that they're smiling at it? You know and you say, well, a chain like that wouldn't be good for a dog. And then the person person goes well, why not? It looks like it'd be too heavy, unless he had a big dog. Okay, that's the second thing. Now I know that they got a dog bowl. That's in the corner. So I'm being aware, situational awareness, and I'm using it to break the ice, so I can open lanes of communication, lanes and lines, communication breakdown silos, all the shit you hear all the time. But why? Why? Because it makes for a safer atmosphere. It makes it builds trust, it means that I can operate at the speed of trust. Right, those are important things to me, no matter what age or location.

Brian Marren: 12:00

And you said it too just a minute ago, because I want to hit on that real quick is that you know it's sort of this finding common ground, and so it's now. We're not at an adversarial relationship or a power dynamic relationship. We're pointing to something over there and we're discussing that, so we can sort of come together, we can be neutral about that or we can agree on something. This is why some people are like, oh, I hate just small talk and blah blah. I was like no, you're supposed to talk to someone about the weather and and how the rain is doing this like that's finding common ground, so that you can have the next step of the conversation you can do this, I mean same thing with, like, with, uh, you know, uh, it's what, because what I used to do, too, is even especially like in the middle east and stuff like that.

Brian Marren: 12:42

It's like always have you know it's what, because what I used to do, too, is even especially like in the Middle East and stuff like that. It's like always, have you know, cigarettes on me, because smokers are social people and so it'd be something. Now we're doing something together. Now we're having a cigarette. Well, now we're we're we're engaged in the same.

Greg Williams: 12:56

Different than everything else, except this we share this Exactly, You're right.

Brian Marren: 13:00

Sorry. So go back to that, but I just want to highlight that is what it is. Is that common ground or that common theme or something we can talk?

Greg Williams: 13:06

about Very important point. So let me show you how different that is. So you and I spend a lot of time at rental car places and hotels and places where they want to get you in and get you out. I don't have time. I've heard it all before. When I'll walk in folks, I'll give you one for free. It's a Gregism. I'll walk into a hotel. I've never been at the hotel before. Walk up to do the check-in and the person says next, and I'll step up with all my shit ready because I don't want to be an ass and delay everybody. I'll look at them. I'll say tell me about your worst guest ever. Immediately you'll see that person change out of what they're doing and go guy came in with three Dobermans and they shit right on the floor, or they'll start talking, yeah, yeah, or whatever.

Greg Williams: 13:50

Yeah, I call that fishing. So I'm fishing to see if the person's open to a conversation. Now, if they shut me down and say something like, oh, I couldn't tell you that, then I'll change it to humor Boom, I fire on the next like a rotor in a car Pop, pop, pop, pop. The spark is firing to catch the gas right To get that internal combustion. So the next one will be well, I might just be that guest, so you might want to share that with me. Now I get a little bit of a laughter or something else and they go okay, I got it. So you're not sure where that's going.

Greg Williams: 14:25

Look when I would go on police calls. The same thing. The people called because they don't know what to do. So if you just show up with the problem-solving attitude and you don't engage in the small talk, right away they get the feeling you're on the clock, staring at your watch, ready to go. Same with the car rental. So, hey, is it okay to you guys?

Greg Williams: 14:38

Take a two-party out-of-state check with no ID, and then, right away, the person stops for a minute and looks at you. Check with no ID. And then, right away, the person stops for a minute and looks at you Kidding, kidding. Hey, listen, is there any upgrades that we could get today for free? And now what you're doing is you're talking. You're not scamming anybody. You know me, I don't give a shit if they're giving something back, I just like having them smiling and we leave. They know my name, I know theirs, and the next time we show up it's like Larry and they're going hey, man, guess what we did and I love that so. So I need to check the atmospherics, and the best way to check the atmospherics which gets me into the geographics is to go first for the biometrics. What is it that I can share with this person while we're talking? Okay, that heuristic template match or prototypical match that I can build with you in the first couple of seconds that we meet. Most people make their decision on you in.

Brian Marren: 15:49

Yeah, so here's how I would explain that If I'm watching this interaction and I he can't why he doesn't have a credit card for me to hold the room with, or something.

Greg Williams: 15:56

Right.

Brian Marren: 15:56

Exactly but but so so what, what you know, this goes back to you know, when you're doing that. It's like you know, kind of the analogy we it's not to get if I I don't want to go in, going, hey, I got to get this person talking to me. It's like no, I got to get this person talking, I got to get this person on common ground. I need to, I need to, I need to get them on the first step of the stairs that we're about to walk up. That's it. I don't need them to go hey, check out this staircase, we're about to walk up. It's like no, and this goes back to that sort of small talk.

Brian Marren: 16:34

But if you make it a little bit more personal, because you didn't just go, man, weather down here in Texas is really kicking today. You know you use humor as a tool because you know everyone has some sort of sense of humor, like every human being, you know, and we all laugh at the same shit. So it's really just to find that common ground, that element, and then allows you to sort of take the temperature of where this person's at and in, because the follow on interaction you know we dealt with it where you can tell we're right when we walk in and we're going to check into a hotel. And it's such a great example because customer service gets really tough and you know that person. You can tell like they've been dealing with this person for a while now, who's giving them some problem about their room or this or that, and you know they're done, their cup is full, it's the end of their shift, they've been there all day and you can just tell and it's people are always thankful for it, right, because it helps them get through their day.

Brian Marren: 17:34

And then it may help us, like you said, get that room upgrade or those extra bottles of water or some snacks from this. I mean, like it's just about and it's just being a good human being. But what we really do is there's some information gathering purposes in that as well too. So good, let's stick, because you brought up the hotel thing and checking in Like why else do I want to do that, other than just being a decent human being, which we have to remind people to be a decent, fucking human being? Like what else? What else am I getting out of that?

Greg Williams: 18:11

So so I wrote down a couple of comments, because you always come up with these great side spirals, and one is you're talking about, you know we're filling in that baseline and comparing things against the baseline. Folks on your way to the restaurant you're building the baseline. On your way through the parking lot, you're refining and adding things.

Greg Williams: 18:27

Right.

Greg Williams: 18:27

So the idea is, by the time I'm engaging with somebody at the restaurant, I've got a whole lot of stuff that I can do. So restaurant, target, 7-eleven, gosh damn hotel, rental car place, wherever you're going to go muffler place because you got to get your oil changed, whatever it is. So Brian and I were in Atlantic City and on the way into the hotel we were probably a couple of miles from the hotel I started looking for the worst gosh damn crap hole in Atlantic City that I could find and memorize in the name, and then we came up and, as I was engaging in small talk with the person behind the counter, I looked at who obviously was the security, and I stopped what I was doing and I looked and I said hey, we're thinking about going to Mondo's tonight for dinner. Is that a great choice, knowing full well that the place is half burned down? You remember the people out in front. The cars are up on jack and everything, and the guy goes holy crap, no, you can't go down there. You got to go. What did I do? I played into his suit. So that's just like a game of cards. I got to figure out what other people are holding and how I can get them to show me whether that's going to be a good bet. Should I stay on or get off, brian?

Greg Williams: 19:31

And so the other thing is you made a comment about testing the water. Look as a swimmer. I was a swimmer too, ran in a family. I guess as a swimmer, the thing you had to do in the morning because you were going to put on a lot of miles before a swim meet is you had to go to the water and jump in. You never tested the water, you never reached down and hit the water because it was always cold and there was always too much chlorine. So you got used to being uncomfortable, as you would say. You know, sucking it up, and if you would do the toe, then it would take the foot. And then you're doing the ankle, and now it's 45 minutes later and you're up to your waist going oh, you know. So you got to just jump right in.

Greg Williams: 20:08

But it's exactly the opposite with communication. What you got to do is you got to breach that threshold and not be afraid to try. But you got to try a little bit slowly. Don't come in with a zinger right away. Hey, what's with the fucking hair? There's ghosts in this place. You don't want to come in like that. You're not Shecky Green. You get what I'm trying to say, because if you're, off-putting you know.

Greg Williams: 20:28

I mean, there's an environment for that. If it's open mic night and I'm at the bar and I want to drink, you know what I'm saying. That's completely different. I'll give you one more very quickly, as we're narrowing down on what this might feel like with baselines. So I went and got my haircut. Look at this, I actually get this cut and if I could find a Flowbee, I'd buy it and do it myself. You remember the Flowbee glove?

Brian Marren: 20:50

Yeah, I do the set cut.

Greg Williams: 20:52

Yeah, exactly, there's another reference.

Greg Williams: 20:55

That's the second one and that was from Wayne's World 1, by the way, yeah, sitting there waiting for my haircut and you know I arrived 20 minutes early for every appointment, no matter what, so I can get the lay of the land and shit People, you don't have to do that. 10 minutes is enough. But as I'm watching, this woman is getting her hair cut in front of me and she's looking in the mirror as the lady says, okay, we're done, in other words, pay me and go. And she looks and holds her hair and goes maybe a little more here. And I'm looking at it and it's minutia, man, it's shit. And so the woman cuts and comes and cuts and comes, and then she looks and she goes, maybe right in here, and so she goes back. Brian, this took the whole 20 minutes that I was early, going back and forth on this little bitty shit that only that woman knew. And then she finally paid and left.

Greg Williams: 21:42

And what about the next appointment? All the small talk? So I'm up next, I jump into the chair and the first thing I do is look in the mirror and I go somewhere right in here and she burst out laughing. Why? Because I used her discomfort, the uncomfortable nature to break the ice and go. I, too, understand what just happened. I'm. I have no idea how you got the patience, you know.

Greg Williams: 22:05

And then the next thing I would say to a person like that hey, you're on your feet all day. I'm on my feet all day. What's the secret with socks? Oh, you see what I'm trying to say. So I'm fishing. Again I'm fishing. What is it that this person is going to like to talk about? Because, if not, one uncomfortable silence gets us nowhere. Okay, and at the end of the day, what I might learn inside that place could help me in future barbershops. Or it could help me in the parking lot, a deescalated situation that I'm going to get into. That's not your property or your car or your dog, you never know. Do people ever get shot doing something stupid that you'd go? There's no way somebody gets shot. Look at road rage. So I don't want that.

Brian Marren: 22:44

So, every interaction, I try to control the pace of that interaction by opening up that door, letting off that steam valve a little bit Right, and so this is a good point to bring up, because you're sort of getting into like, how you do this and give me some good examples and playing into what that person's sort of role is. So like you going up to the security guard and asking about that place, that's not safe. Okay, he is the security guard, so he is a protector, so he's going to go. Hey, man, no, don't do that. Like you know what I mean, you're playing into that, that role that they're playing, whether it doesn't matter what the person is, you know how good they are at their job or what they think. You know you're, you're using the environment and what they, what you should expect to see.

Brian Marren: 23:25

Now someone could be like, yeah, man, go there, whatever, I don't care. That's, that's different. But you now get that because you had more information going into that conversation than that person did. So it's the same thing with the customer service. Right, check out a hotel server, whatever it is, where you're engaging with customers. That's part of your job. So you do. But it's one of those things. Sorry, my camera came unplugged somehow, but we can keep going. It'll fix itself in a second. I think I actually don't notice the difference that little eight-point looks exactly like you.

Brian Marren: 24:01

But what you're sort of getting into is sort of the how to do it and based on sort of like this is where it gets into, based on your personality in a sense. This is where it gets into, based on your personality in a sense. And, for example, like I'm much more sort of introverted, not as outgoing and stuff, but I also want to kind of throw a rock in the pond and test things out, so it's it's sort of playing to who you are. Like you use a ton of self deprecating human it's. It's it's a way for now to make you sort of the the object of the joke, you know, rather than making that person like the object of the joke in a sense, because it it relieves tension well, and that's what I mean.

Greg Williams: 24:43

I don't want to make them feel like you take that on and all that time yeah so like how, like what, what have you found in in sort of a Cause?

Brian Marren: 24:51

you talked about it from being a kid and you know, um, what you can, uh, um, sorry, this thing is giving me some trouble, but um, you you talked about from being kid and going through dad on HVAC runs to all the way up to then you did like your hostage negotiator. Now you're just doing it no-transcript, when, the when the AC is kicking and it's kind of hard to pull a little bit. You know what, what's the thing, what's what's the, what's the negative air machine that I need to put on there, since we're we're on a we're on an HVAC topic, so I guess I'll just stick with that.

Greg Williams: 25:53

Yeah, yeah, exactly All references today, no. So let's always think of the least intervention and the least objectionable outcome. And you're back, by the way, and what I mean by that. For example, I was a really good cop. I loved being a cop. I miss it every single day, and the reason I love it is because I was at the top of my cop. I love being a cop. I miss it every single day, and the reason I love it is because I was at the top of my game. I could do no wrong and I enjoyed the shit out of that.

Greg Williams: 26:19

And one thing that I would do is I would love busting bad guys. So, even though I worked on midnights and I would be running into bad guys all night long, I would get a chance to switch and do a day shift because we're going to a wedding or something, or do an afternoon shift, and I would see lawn care crews out there. I would always pull over with a bunch of donuts and a bunch of coffee for the lawn care crew. The boss never minded that five minutes are there people? The same thing with carpenters that were working, and people would say why do you do that? Well, here's one thing when do carpenters work? When are they pounding nails? When do lawn care people work? They don't work at dusk, they don't work after dark. Okay, so that means that they're up in that neighborhood at an elevated position or somewhere that nobody pays attention. Nobody pays attention to a guy mowing a lawn or using a blower. So while they're there conducting surveillance and doing ISR before a bank robbery or to do a burglary, okay, who's watching them? The people in that neighborhood. So if you've got a dog walking service that's walking three or four dogs with the T-shirts, I'll always stop and talk to them. I'll bring them a breakfast burrito. Hey, I work this area. What did you see? What are the cars that are parked? Well, I'll tell you what People over there. They're always parked there because they're making out. That's a meet me, eat me People over there. They're always parked there because they're smoking the hashish or whatever it is, brian. But they saw things and remember, when you look at them, you don't see them Because you're driving through the area and you're mission focused on I'm setting up for this raid, or I'm setting up for this arrest warrant service or a search warrant, or I'm going to rob this bank.

Greg Williams: 27:51

So you're so into that moment that you're looking for what You're looking for coppers, visible signs of authority, a way to get out of there. Hey, that 7-Eleven is closer to the freeway than this one. There's my exit strategy. So that guy washing windows in an elevated position during the day everybody tunes him up. So that's my source of information. So now I conduct street interviews with those people, which takes going up and going hey, I got to either flash the 10 or go. Hey, I'm new to this area. Or hey, just got the weirdest question you've probably ever been asked what's the worst thing that happened? Now you've got that dialogue going.

Greg Williams: 28:26

But, brian, I'm using that information to create a more stalwart, a more uh, uh, uh, fidelityfilled baseline for my next contact. Do you understand that every contact is like dominoes? They're setting up so I can knock down that next contact. Now I've got some insider information. Man, that was a long flight.

Greg Williams: 28:45

What did I just do? I just put the ID. I primed you to say, hey, where'd you come from? Okay, now we're talking. So I set you up. So you know, I got my luggage, I'm coming up, I'm fishing for my ID, you get what I'm trying to say and I go world's longest flight. I've interested you in something that's going on. So you have to have a panoply of strategies. You can't go with just one, and you also have to be able to read the room. So, just like we don't, I remember, brian and I one time we're down in Texas teaching and when we got down to Texas, uh, my flights were late and I came in late and stuff, and so I did a joke on day two. That would have been perfect on day one, but the folks in the room didn't know me for that first day, and so they all looked at me and crossed their arms.

Brian Marren: 29:30

You had to dig yourself out a little bit. I had to go whoa, we already had the rapport going and you tried to come in off the top rope. They're like who's this? Guy, you weren't here yesterday, when we all became blood brothers. You know what I mean Exactly.

Greg Williams: 29:42

We know these guys, but we don't know you. You didn't sweat with us. We didn't have lunch together, so the idea is the same exact, exact thing. Now, look, when you're paid to put on a concert, people are there in the seats for you to come out and entertain. That's not what you're doing here. What you're doing is you're talking about a taxi driver or you're talking about the person that's bagging your groceries, like, for example, always give the side eye when a person comes up, like nowadays, trying to find a place that bags your groceries or actually checks you out. Okay, those were things that made us human. Those were things that allowed us to interact with the world around us, and we don't do that anymore. So always make sure that as you're first coming in, or halfway through your shopping or something, you look at the lane that you're likely to go to and memorize names. So when you come up I just did it at a doctor's appointment knew the kid at the counter that opened the glass His. I knew the kid at the counter that opened the glass. His name was Carl. It's a small town, 10 feet away, so there's no way I could have read his nameplate.

Greg Williams: 30:37

I go good morning, carl. How's your day? Okay? Do you think that that deescalates the situation? That opens all kinds of doors? Wow, supposed to know this guy. He clearly knows me.

Greg Williams: 30:49

What's going on here and when you see that smile or when you see that nod, now you know we got something. I've showed up on calls where cops are surrounding people and they've got every form of less lethal out and one person's ready with the lethal and they're circling and that person's turning and it's ready to go sideways. It's shit sandwich with the shit being lit on fire. And I go to somebody hey, not to interrupt what's going on here. Hey, man, this guy ain't listening to anybody and Father Flanagan would come out. I would reach into my bag of tricks and I'd come out and, oh, what are we doing, son? I'd go right back to going my way with Bing Crosby and channel that old Irish priest and I would go like, hey, take a look around you real quick, it's about to be humpty-dumpty. It's about to be humpty dumpty. You're going to get the thumpty. What is it I can do or say to get inside your head and not have this happen? I'm not afraid of anybody. Are you afraid of me?

Brian Marren: 31:39

you're not afraid of me yeah, tell me why you're not afraid.

Greg Williams: 31:41

Anyway, guess what we're doing, brian. We're talking. We're not beaten, you know, and the idea is, the more I can get you to talk, even when you're agitated or pissed off, the less you're using your fists and feet and fighting me. But I, going back to the first sentence you used today on the call, can't be adversarial if I come in, adversarial if that's where I'm gonna go and you're not paying, yeah, and the problem might have is too is.

Brian Marren: 32:05

sometimes the environment sort of sets up almost an adversarial or or not necessarily adversarial but there's like one person in power, the other person has none kind of role and and you see this a lot when people get upset like airports are perfect because you get the gate agent, your job to do, you people coming up and doing stuff and asking all kinds of questions, and it's like everyone's first time flying, like they forgot how to do anything, right.

Brian Marren: 32:30

These are just kind of stressful situations in general. But because the environment is set up that way, it's almost you start from that kind of adversarial I'm on my side, you're on behind the desk here where I'm not allowed back, and you're the one in charge and I have nothing. So people get kind of like they sort of feel a little threatened by that, sometimes too so, and I'm sort of just taking from the other perspective to someone walking up and asking a question and being being approachable and allowing people to come up to you, right, everyone talks about there's different ways to do that and to look in a manner where no one wants to bother you. Um, you know, or or or set up, and sometimes we'll do that with people, that's, I won't get into that on the show when we're when we're trying to throw a rock in the pond, where someone's clearly putting up barriers, and then we go drop right down in the middle of them to break those. But it kind of reminded me of a couple.

Greg Williams: 33:23

Here comes that yellow smoke man. Yeah Well here's.

Brian Marren: 33:25

There's a couple one, there's one I saw. It's actually it's pretty funny. He's I think he's a comedian or whatever, but I saw it on social media clips. But he walks up to the gate agents and he's recording it from the side and he's got the microphone on so you can hear the conversation. And he walks up, he's like hey, I'm so-and-so, I'm in seat 33F, whatever. I'm traveling with my wife and we're not seated together. But I'm supposed to be up here asking you if you can seat us together, but I actually don't want to sit next to my wife, so I'm just having this conversation and they're like oh my God.

Brian Marren: 33:56

So now they're so uncomfortable and they're kind of like laughing, but it's that nervous laughter but it's. It's just like it's it's breaking the ice. And the other one I saw, really we remember when we were at we were at a school and we had this kid come up who was kind of just an odd kid and he turned out to be a real odd kid but he was a great guy and and you know, and there's a mix of these students and and law enforcement officers in there, and so there's these two guys that were, like you know, had been cops for a long time, big SWAT dudes like shaved head muscles everywhere, just kind of sat down because it was before the class started and this kid was sitting by himself and we just see him get up, go over and just plop right down in front of these guys and just have this, just start talking to them and you could tell they're kind of like hadn't had their coffee yet and they're just like, okay, but they're trying to be friendly and nice and they were like a little annoyed. But you know, what we learned is we found out from that that guy we had him on the podcast Austin, uh, and and he basically cause of his issues and social issues and sitting in his mom's basement forever, he realized he had to make a change.

Brian Marren: 35:01

So he started going out cause he was terrible at like social interaction. So he did the G Gordon Liddy like you're talking about. He just forced himself. He went to a mall and he goes. Well, why don't I go to these old people? Because they're not threatening, they have no one to talk to, so they probably want to talk. They're here in public and he would sit down and just try to have conversations with people. And so it was his own personal development that he did.

Brian Marren: 35:24

But when you see that stuff happen, it was so powerful when we got the whole backstory Because I'm like, what is this kid doing? How does he just walk up and plop down next to these two jack dudes with guns who he doesn't know at all? And I mean it can take kind of a lot, but because of who he is and how he looks and his affect and how he approaches it, it's completely non-threatening, like it's. It's. It's, in fact, it's almost like oh God, I got to talk to kid you know. I mean but but that's, that's good right and you're smiling, going what's?

Greg Williams: 35:53

yeah, because now I have some empathy for him now I'm trying to see it through his perspective.

Brian Marren: 35:58

Now it's like, okay, it's, this is, this is harmless and that that approach, um, uh, kind of kind of works. So you know, the the kind of next thing I want to get into, because we're talking about really just easing tensions. This is de-escalation, is what you're talking about. And get you know there's benefits, everyone, psychological de-escalation, everyone benefits from that. That person who's had a long day, you benefit it from some way. The other people do. It lightens tensions. It's just easier when we're all laughing, having a good time, right, um. So so it's like sort of establishing and finding this common ground.

Brian Marren: 36:32

And you know, the other thing I kind of want to get into is that that also really determines the baseline for the situation. It determines it gives me a comparison point, because now I know if someone is still, even though you're trying and it's obvious, you're trying to sort of ease the tension or have a conversation, and they're still putting up barriers or they are, are, you know, back and we're not going along with it, now that also gives me some insight into that person and maybe their intent. So so how, how do I, how do I do that, or what can I glean from that, from people who don't want to go along then or continue to say almost argue, so you get what I'm saying.

Brian Marren: 37:11

So now it's almost like it's sort of not escalating a little bit, but it's helping me really define the situation and what I can glean from it.

Greg Williams: 37:20

First of all, for everybody listening, write this down. This works just as well on a phone call. A phone call is a non-text, verbal interchange over your thing that you carry in your hand. Most people don't make phone calls anymore. We make a lot, and during a phone call not a Zoom, an actual phone call you can do these same skills.

Greg Williams: 37:41

Second, okay, you've been with me at 1,000 hotels, most of those for work and on the way out, when we're going shopping for class the next day, or when we're going to dinner, I always ask the person working the counter the same thing hey, brian and I are going out to dinner, can I bring you anything? And I say it just like I did. So it's very genuine because I would actually get them something or bring them something from the store if they need it. Because I've been in that position. I know what it's like working, you know, midnight shift, having to watch the phones from two to three or whatever the hell it was, and that's a great icebreaker, that's a great way to get that person involved in a conversation. And then they recognize you when you come back in and don't say may I help you when you've been staying at the hotel for three days. Second thing is, you can pull off a character and it's okay to be afraid. I'll give you an exam. There's Father Flanagan, that's one of my characters. There's also Peter Falk in Columbo, where I go.

Greg Williams: 38:42

I just don't see that stuff is not adding up here. Help me understand what I'm doing wrong or what I can do to fix this situation. I mean, we go to places and the car's not there. We go to places and it's the wrong hotel room. We go to places where they booked us in Columbus Ohio and we're in Columbus, georgia. So now, all of a sudden, that person at the counter doesn't give a shit. They got nine people standing in line behind you. How do I get on your hey, listen first. I standing in line behind you. How do I get on your hey, listen. First I want to tell you thanks for what you're doing today. I know this can't be easy for you. Second, you got to be a way that we can figure this out together. Help me, help you.

Greg Williams: 39:20

How do we solve that problem when you're there, rather than tapping your foot and being agitated and placing blame on somebody that doesn't need the blame, you're more apt. You're more likely to get what it is you want. If I come up and I go, this is fucking ridiculous, get me a supervisor. What did I just do? I just elevated the conversation to a place that might be unattainable. Later I might have reached the threshold with this person in front of me and then the next thing is fisticuffs, so psychological or verbal de-escalation.

Greg Williams: 39:54

You know, I remember reading all the books I had to get certified in the state of Colorado. They were all about the you know, meat eaters and plant eaters and this and that, and I never found any of that shit helpful. What I found helpful is reading the environment before you open your mouth. Then, once you it's okay to be a little bit afraid open your mouth. Commit when you commit to something.

Greg Williams: 40:15

If the person doesn't, brian's exactly right. If you're not meeting me halfway, there's got to be a reason why, and that could be either you're the wrong person, you have some physical or mental difference in your character that's not allowing you to be at that level, which is okay too. That doesn't mean you're going to be a classic obstructionist, or you are an obstructionist. This happens a lot when we're HR or coppers or in a command role. Let's say that you're in a leadership position and you encounter somebody that's bristled already and they don't want to talk to you. Well then, explain to them. We're never going to get anywhere if you don't tell me what's going on, what's the issue here. Don't say what's wrong, because that intones wrong, you know. And don't say well, like I've seen people come up and go well, you're acting like a complete asshole. Tell me you know. Or coming up and saying calm down, brian. How well does that work?

Greg Williams: 41:06

oh, yeah, you might as well have a gas can and a road flare to throw at somebody. So the idea is to start small, in a rehearsal at your local 7-Eleven, at a gas station, at some place that's close to your house, and go in there three times this week and buy something, buy a pack of gum, and the third time okay, first, two times I haven't said anything, just watch and listen. Third time, third time that week that I buy a pack of gum. Look at the person and go how many packs of gum have I bought this week? And the person goes what? And you go, I'm the same guy every other day and I'm going to be here in two days to buy another pack. Leave it at that. Then two days later, come back and go, guess what I'm here for. That's right. I'm here to buy the pack of gum.

Greg Williams: 41:47

What I'm doing, brian, is I'm building that trust by creating a little bit of inroad, and I can't build the whole gosh damn aqueduct on it. I've got to take it slow, you know, and people are going to go. I don't have that kind of time. That's why you're in a fixed year and and the barrier to entry here is this If I'm so focused on this, that I can't look you in the eye and sense you on your phone and I can't look at like Brian. You know how old this jacket is and I still wear it. I still have the brown one. I wear that. That's not accidental. That's to get inside of your head. I have my shirt untucked. That's to create a persona that you have an expectation of, so I can build on that when I'm creating or bouncing something off, testing the baseline. So those are intentional.

Greg Williams: 42:39

When I fly, I wear my flying outfit. When we teach, I wear my teaching outfit. None of that is accidental and I think the people listening to the podcast should try that. And you're going yeah, but I wear a uniform every day. Yeah, but is there a special pin or a special thing you say, or the type of pen you hold? Saudi Arabia, all the men have to wear exactly the same clothing. So what do they specialize in the pen that's in their pocket? Every pen is different and it defines you, so you can find what defines you as well. And maybe it's religious. Maybe you say have a blessed day at the end of every contract or praise God in between your sentences. It doesn't matter what it is, brian, but being consistent in that then people recognize you when they see you again or they go. Oh, I know this guy, he's harmless and that's an important standard too. De-escalation is a two way street. I have to lead you to want, want to deescalate with me and lower the anxiety level in the room.

Brian Marren: 43:32

Yeah, and and there's, there's sort of different, different methods, and you know, I go back to kind of what I was was talking about at the beginning of everyone's sort of you know, personality and character is a little bit different, so you sort of have to find what, what works for you, or or create something where you know, like you gave the example, I'll untuck one part of my shirt, I'll drop some of my stuff, I'll kind of be the big buffoon as sort of a disarming technique. You do that because, also, you're a big guy and you can come across as intimidating.

Greg Williams: 44:08

Exactly. I don't want to get punched in the face at every time I meet.

Brian Marren: 44:11

You don't. You don't want to start that off, so it's almost like, uh, you're creating, um, you're creating, like you said, that the persona, that character, and and you're you're also kind of interrupting their um, natural tendency to put you in a certain category or a box or something like that, right, so so I'm creating a little bit of cognitive dissonance on there so that it forces that person to take an extra second or a minute or whatever to to look at your situation differently or not categorize you as oh, here's some guy just coming up complaining again, or something like that. You know in, in, in, coming across genuinely that way. But you know, like you said, if you, if you said, if you're trying to trying to do too much or you're being robotic, it's not going to come across as genuine. And now they think that you're, you're up to something. And so this is when, when you know you brought up some examples of, like buying the pack of gum or going in there these are small things you know you can do and sort of practice. Practice, in a sense, you can get, everyone can get better at it and, and it is harder because you brought up I do want to get into that, though you brought up the, the cell phone, right, is everyone staring at it and you know it's like these people talking about situational awareness and stuff all the time, like it's it's way easier now than it ever has been my entire life to find out who's doing what and who's up to no good. It's so much easier because everyone is just glued to your phone. So if you're not, you know why you have a little bit higher level of, just because they're designed that way to keep us on there longer. But literally then we start building habits of how often we're on our phone and what we're looking at and all that.

Brian Marren: 46:10

You kind of got to get into that other person's head and kind of do the mental etch-a-sketch and shake it up a little bit. Right, you have to like get, get their attention because there's so much competing for it. And that initial thing because you bring up this is this is a great one to show the sort of generational difference, like some of the things you're talking about, someone younger is like I don't want to do that, or that's cringe, or uh, that's, that's weird, weird, or that's it's like no, it's, it's not, it's it's you. You may find it weird, but that doesn't mean it actually is or what I. That person is lacking in those areas of of communicating and used to like not used to looking at people in the eye all the time. Well, I can take that into account and go, you know, I can use that then, right, so if I know that's a difference, or I know that you're uncomfortable with that, well, that's, that's something also I can use to help, you know, kind of lower the attention in the situation or make it less, you know, make it less awkward or something, and and these are things that that you kind of got to practice. So, like, cause personally, me, personally, me I'm, I'm definitely more introverted. Um, you know, I don't just constantly I'm not. I mean, yes, all humans are constantly on transmit, but I'm not super social when I'm out in public because I have things that I'm trying to accomplish or do, so you know to to get outside of that comfort zone, like those are all things that I used to have to do and force myself to do, right, even when it came to like teaching or something I had my own style or very comfortable with certain things, but then I kind of kind of learn, like, all right, well, if I really want to get in the heads of people, if I really want to make this dynamic, I have to practice these few things and so, just taking them one step at a time, you learn what happens is your own style comes from that. Then the time you learn what happens is your own style comes from that.

Brian Marren: 47:53

Then, right, once you push out of that comfort zone and getting in and just chatting with people and having those seemingly mundane conversations um, I don't find them to be mundane conversations at all. Um, in, in fact, if someone is talking to you and they're bringing up stuff and oh, that weather, you know they're, they're what they're attempting to engage you in conversation and you know everyone kind of like is there's just like bash on, just oh, this small talk BS, and it's like, no, that's what makes the world go around, that's what allows us that ability to converse with people we've never met, because everyone can talk about the weather and it's a pretty much affecting everyone the same way. So you're literally starting from a place of common ground and and those small things go, they pay dividends in the long run, because next thing you know it's five minutes later and you know every piece of information about that person that you could ever want. Um, and whether or not that has value to you is different, but you know it's it's. It's helpful in those situations to look at the mundane, look at the normal, look at the typical, and then how do I kind of insert myself into that?

Brian Marren: 48:56

And I, you know, looking at the environment that you're in and playing to that role that that person's playing, what is the role that they're playing at that time and place and what is your role? Right, if I'm going to play the role of the passenger when I'm traveling, what else should I expect to see with that role? And I can use that because it's it's a legitimate place to come from. And, you know, maybe I'm just trying to get a seat upgrade, no-transcript, that is, half of them are fucking bullshit anyway and half of them don't even apply to that and the other half rarely apply to that individual.

Brian Marren: 49:52

But then we start to become that person. We go, oh, this is my issue, I have social anxiety. So now you start doing things, acting as if you're the person with social anxiety where maybe you really don't. You get what I'm saying. It's like we come up with these own sort of faulty attributions to our personality or behavior, because I saw a really interesting YouTube short on it and that's me, that's totally me. So it kind of corrupts the way we look at things and that's why we go back to all the stuff is just normal, typical behavior and that's the important stuff to look at.

Greg Williams: 50:23

No, even more important. And Brian, spot on. Everything that he's saying is spot on. Let's go back to what you said. People are constantly on transmit my haircut, my jacket, the 25-year-old shirt that I'm wearing today, all of the things, my shoes, the fact that I've got them off because my gosh damn feet are hurting, all of those are telling a story. So my clothes tell a story my haircut, my breath, whether I brush my teeth, the glasses I choose, or whether I'm, you know, wearing cardboard lenses, you know, with plastic sheets on them. The cats I choose, the car I drive, the color of the car I drive, the things on the porch at my house they're all screaming to me. That's you.

Greg Williams: 51:03

You're trying to tell me about you and the choice that you make and the things that you like, because you want to tell your story, because you're human and your ego, whatever you want to call it, your insides make you want to be friendly, because you don't thrive or survive if you're a loner and if you're way out there on your own. There's so many things that we could go into the psychological problems, the mental issues, the physical issues and all that other stuff of not being around people. And it's fine, it doesn't make you, you know. It doesn't mean that you're an outcast, but a loner is a very, very specific type of personality trait. But if you're constantly on transmit, then I want to hear your story. That's the difference. I remember folks. You got to understand that, like I've been teaching for so long now and I'm always teaching with people that are at the top of their game. So I've got the senior master, chief dive bubble expert on all bombs in the entire world, and I've got to teach them how to get out in front of people and do this course of instruction, this little period, this three slide thing, and they're out there going. Well, I'm a quiet professional and I, you know, can't get down to your level. Well then, you're never going to connect with anybody. You might be the best at something, but if you can't remember the guy uh uh Ross that did the paintings and he showed you how to do the paintings, no, in full. Well, you'd never make your shit look like, but he sure was. What was he, brian? He was transparent and he was vulnerable. He went out there and showed you how to do it. So the idea is that first of all, you got to wear your heart on your sleeve. You have to be in a motor, you have to have some level of emotions.

Greg Williams: 52:39

One of my favorite shows on TV and one of my favorite stars Jack Webb and Dragnet. Just the Facts, get straight to it. The fast talking, high pants Okay, those were great shows and they showed what this quintessential cop was like. That's not cop work at all. Those people are going to shut you up unless you're thumping a bunch of people or doing it at gunpoint all the time. You know that's a different story and you know we look at a situation, look at the situation with the Dallas coppers that got gunned down by one person during a parade and remember the fear and the hate and the death that was going on there. Now we take a look.

Greg Williams: 53:13

Democratic National Convention is on and I heard a couple of Chicago cops arguing about the pro-Palestinian protesters that were outside, but there must have been a thousand of them. Yeah, but you know what? None of them were trying to kill you and you know what. No-transcript. What am I trying to do today? And getting through with the least amount of friction and ripples is a good thing. So opening up lines of conversation, lessening the anxiety level, being a little afraid, but trying something new, those are great things. Why do we put people in seats at the class? Why do we force them into a color and say this is your cell? We want to get them out of their comfort zone, brian, so they're more apt to go across the street and ask those tough questions.

Brian Marren: 54:23

So what, what? Um? Do you have any examples that like typically work all the time, or that you've seen that one of the hey, one of the easiest things to do, the lowest calorie ways to do this or to or to talk to someone or to get information like that, or just I would just say, wind that back. What's the easiest way to establish enough of a connection or common ground to have a conversation? Have you experienced anything like you see across the board that typically works?

Greg Williams: 54:56

Yeah. So pick something that not everybody knows about. You've heard me say it a zillion times Do your homework. So Brian brought up something just a few minutes ago about going and trying to get an upgrade on a plane. It's rarer than hen's teeth and it's not going to happen to you because loyalty programs and there's a list and there's a line and all these other things that they got to put people and it's all about pay. So if you're going to pay somebody, they're going to bump you up, but if you're not, they're not. So those are things you got to do before you get to the airport. Know that that's going to piss her off. But if you say something like hey, look, if anybody at the last minute has a fear of flying, and they bail and they got a better seat than the shitty seat I've got, please come back and get me. My name's Greg, something like that is okay and they'll laugh a little bit and they'll think you're half joking. But you know what, if that situation does arise, as odd as that would be, they'll say, hey, where's that fat guy? And they'll come back and talk to Greg.

Greg Williams: 55:46

The thing is simple. Stuff Like, for example, a female might take a time on her outfit to make sure that her earrings match a brooch or something, and so you can pause for just a second, look like you were going to walk by and then say, hey, are those like heirlooms, or did you buy them all at once? Something simple like that. Now remember if it's timing there's a fire on the plane and everybody's trying to get off not the time to play your game. Do you get what I'm trying to say? But something like the haircut hey, listen, I can never get my haircut to look that good. Do you go locally or do you do it yourself? Things like that are not so personal and they're generic enough and you mean it. So you're really asking about it. Like you know. Hey, I noticed you guys went to a different color on your uniforms. How do you? How are you liking that? I like that a lot or not? You know a holiday coming up. What was the weirdest thing that's happened today? Because a holiday. Hey, full moon last night. You know what cops say about a full moon.

Greg Williams: 56:43

You have to have a line, and I refer to that as banter, and you have to have banter that builds on something that's there. So to be legitimate, it has to be something that's reasonable in the environment. You get what I'm trying to say. You can't come up and go hey, you know what I'd buy if I fucking won the lottery? Okay, oh, holy shit, I didn't know there'd be a quiz. Do you get what I'm trying to say? You can't be so far afield but saying something like hey, today I got to wear a tie and I think I left it in my carry-on. That's a great thing. What did I just do?

Greg Williams: 57:15

And then the person goes well, I've got extra ties, or maybe you can buy one when you land. Now I'm talking. And once you're talking, that's the key, brian. Once you're talking and we've got something going restaurant hey, what's the most popular appetizer? I'm not going to order, I just wondered if you knew what it was. Or what do you eat when you eat here?

Greg Williams: 57:32

And then a person gives you that oh well, don't try the fish. Yeah, exactly so. Are there any fish you know like, is there any Atlantic cod indigenous to Missouri? You know it's starting off with just the dumbest thing. Like that is sometimes a lot of fun, you know, and we do that to just psychologically deescalate, to open the door to later. Now, if that person's just coming back and forth and grunting and throwing shit down in front of you. Maybe you need to pick a new restaurant or a new waiter next time that you're in there. But I do the same thing as a library, I do the same thing at a Target, anywhere that I go, and I'll tell you don't forget the people that are cleaning up. Look, you might have two or three jobs and you're buffing a floor at six. When I go in the morning to City Market to buy my shit, stop and tell that person hey, that looks really good, you're doing a great job. People appreciate that, but you keep bringing it back to making it genuine.

Brian Marren: 58:26

I say that if you really mean it, it's going. It's kind of talking about finding something that you could almost compliment someone on or give them a little attaboy or anything like that. You really get that, especially if it's something customer service related. They have to deal with the worst people and so those little things. They end up going a long way and, uh, you know you, you're, you're making something personal to them, but not it not not personally invasive, you're not like asking them about, you know, is your like what do you look?

Brian Marren: 59:10

at that Horrible.

Greg Williams: 59:12

Tommy, you got the reason I'm saying that it's Brian has to strike up conversations at the clinic all the time and I'm sure that some of those conversations are happening around you.

Brian Marren: 59:33

So you always have to take the moral high road while you're getting those very important test results. Oh my god, yeah. So we, we, um, we kind of we we covered a lot and, uh, you know, start the, the importance of it. You know all of those seemingly mundane interactions are. That's what situational awareness is meaning being able to figure out that and read the temperature of the room. Well, you have to do that, and then you have to test your hypothesis and you have to throw a rock in the pond, and doing that in a constructive manner or a deliberate way updated.

Brian Marren: 59:57

Yeah, and you're getting a feel for, for what's what's going on and and those, yeah, the hotel ones are great. Like you know, when you come in, it's like super dirty somewhere. It's like, oh, great. And then it's like, well, hang on, I don't know. It's like, hey, you guys got some construction going on. Like, yeah, they're redoing this place. It's a mess. Now it's like, okay, good, there's a reason. It's not because they don't care, there's something going on. It's just it's. It's it's kind of hypothesis testing and and using, you know, just the seemingly mundane, cheesiest conversation. Conversation is going to get you farther than trying to come up with some whiz bang question where they have to give you some exact piece of information. You never know what it's going to find. You just have to sort of pull, pull at the strings as it as it comes along. So yeah, that was your homework.

Brian Marren: 1:00:45

Yeah, we covered a lot. Any kind of final words on it, greg?

Greg Williams: 1:00:53

One thing is if you do it every day, you get better. Point one, Point two it's a lot of fun and it doesn't hurt anybody. Being kind and being inquisitive, those are great traits. As a matter of fact, I hope that I pass that on to my children and their children.

Brian Marren: 1:01:09

Yeah, that's a great point. Thanks everyone for tuning in, and don't forget that training changes behavior.