Orientation: How We Make Sense

Have you ever wondered how our brains transform chaotic sensory inputs into meaningful information that guides our actions and decisions? Tune in to uncover the fascinating mechanisms behind human perception and orientation, and how these processes are essential for navigating our complex world. We promise you'll gain insights into how our senses seamlessly align to enhance situational awareness, improve decision-making, and empower personal and professional success.

Join us as we unravel the intricate ways we organize and make sense of the overwhelming flood of information we encounter daily. Using engaging analogies, we shed light on how we assign meaning to our experiences, likening it to managing a computer's file system. Discover why real-life training trumps virtual reality in shaping our mental models and why understanding cognitive processes is key to effective problem-solving and leadership.

In an era where short clips vie with long-form storytelling for our attention, we explore the societal implications of these trends on information engagement. From historical narratives to modern communication shifts, we reflect on the enduring importance of foundational principles in decision-making. We'll also delve into the misconceptions surrounding AI, contrasting its capabilities with the human ability to reason across domains. As we advocate for understanding and goal-setting, we emphasize the need for meaningful connections and feedback with our listeners.

Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Human Orientation and Sense-Making
• 9:26 Navigating Meaning and Understanding
• 17:20 Enhancing Mental Models Through Training
• 29:13 Perception, Orientation, and Visual Processing
• 36:39 Cognitive Processing and Sense-Making
• 40:57 Neural Connections and Orientation Influence
• 53:38 The Changing Societal Impact on Orientation
• 1:02:21 Long-Form Content vs. Short Attention Span
• 1:07:02 Maximizing Human Potential Through Understanding
• 1:15:49 Focus on Outcome-Based Decision Making
• 1:26:16 Engaging Audience Participation and Feedback

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. Today we are exploring one of the most critical yet overlooked aspects of human perception orientation. From how we align our senses in everyday life to the mental models that help us navigate high-stakes scenarios, orientation underpins our ability to interpret and adapt to a constantly shifting world. We'll look at how functional field of view determines what we notice and miss, how sense-making weaves new information into existing mental models and why cognitively close enough training can profoundly influence our real-world decisions by breaking down the science behind vision, attention and learning. We'll show you how a deeper grasp of these concepts not only enhances our situational awareness, but also improves our capacity to detect anomalies, mitigate threats and seize opportunities. Whether your focus is personal safety, organizational leadership or just day-to-day decision-making, this conversation will arm you with the practical insight you need to be more observant, more prepared and more effective, because, ultimately, orientation is about positioning yourself for success in any environment. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Don't forget to check out our Patreon channel for additional content and subscriber-only episodes. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving us a review and, more importantly, sharing it with a friend. Thank you for your time and remember that training changes behavior. All right, good morning, greg, hitting this one early morning before the holiday break coming up. So we're getting towards that time of the end of the year and today we've got an interesting sort of conversation and some things that we want to bring up about something that we talked about in class, about orientation and functional field view, and I'll explain what it is in a minute. But the goal is to kind of have a larger kind of sociological understanding of how things affect us as humans. So for this one, what I'll do is I'll kind of run through the overall kind of overview of what we're going to be talking about and then we'll get into some of the details and I'll go to you for that to kind of walk us through from sort of, I guess, tactical to strategic or micro to macro, however we want to do it. So small to big, I guess, is the simplest way to put it. But so here's the thing that we're doing. So today we're discussing a seemingly simple concept that we talked about during training as well as on the show, and that's orientation. So we're going to explain what we mean by orientation, get into things like functional field of view and perception. And while the science is fascinating, it's also a window into how we navigate and adapt keyword there in everyday life.

Speaker 1: 2:30

From the moment we open our eyes, our brains engage in a complex automatic process called sense-making. It's how we extract meaning from the flood of sensory input that surrounds us. So our five senses sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste those are our primary tools for gathering environmental data. There's no sixth sense, right. Instead, it's our cognitive power lies in how we organize, interpret and act on the sensory information.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Visual perception plays a central role here. We rely on vision, guided by our actions, using what we see to make decisions based on experience and expectation, enabling us to make rapid decisions. So this is where the concept of functional field of view comes in, the portion of our visual field where we can effectively process information without moving our eyes. So the central vision about fine details. But functional field of view isn't static, it's dynamic, right. It's shaped by our orientation in space, and orientation aligns our senses with our intended action, guiding us toward meaningful targets while filtering out distractions.

Speaker 1: 3:33

I'm going to get into that process and what that means and how that works and how it can go wrong sometimes, but it's a life saving mechanism in high stakes scenarios where rapid assessment is critical. So today we'll dissect that stuff that I brought up. We'll dissect how functional field of view and orientation interact, transforming sort of this raw sensory input into actionable intelligence, and we'll explore how these concepts help us detect anomalies, assess potential threats and adapt to ever-changing environments. Homilies assess potential threats and adapt to ever-changing environments. And it's that adaptation that is going to sort of lead us to the larger sociological discussion we'll have about how these things shape our world and our mind. And then it's kind of like a continuous feedback loop, right? So that's sort of the overview, greg, why don't you I'll go to you to kind of start that process in a sense and I sharpen our focus here, since we're starting and talking about orientation and vision and everything and what this means and how powerful it is.

Speaker 2: 4:34

Yeah, and if you're following at home, break out the yellow pad as long as you're not like driving on the freeway, unless you're a passenger and write down. What Brian said is the outline and I'll go in order as much as I can.

Speaker 1: 4:46

Well, I would say, just listen to that, but write down what you're going to say, because we're going to kind of go down into these. I don't know if my stuff is going to be as memorable as yours.

Speaker 2: 4:54

So my overarching theme, when Brian and I discussed the topic, I'll open and close with it and that's that your senses orient your body so that you can collect vital information quicker in order to survive challenging encounters. Now, when I say survive challenging encounters, your brain is constantly switched on to look for danger warning Will Robinson. So this is just another function of your daily life, because that's how your life works. You think that all the stuff that you're doing is important in your life. Well, your brain is going, yeah. Yeah, that's second or tertiary. My survival is the first thing.

Speaker 2: 5:30

So that first point that Brian brought up is very, very essential Understanding that your brain favors organization. What does that mean? That means that organized thoughts and organized artifacts and evidence provide a much simpler encoding of an array of sensory input. So your brain is overwhelmed daily with the amount of sensory input. So it has to have a gating mechanism, it has to have a way to take all of that information and prioritize it and leave some behind. A lot is left behind, as a matter of fact. Leave some behind. A lot is left behind, as a matter of fact. So sensemaking gives meaning to our experiences, specifically our collective experiences, so we can share that reality in space-time. So that means sensemaking helps us organize information from the vast array of environments that we operate in every day so that we can create meaning and understanding and our meaning and understanding. The second part of that can be be shared with kids, can be shared with, okay. Loss can be shared, you know, uh, with the next generation okay, so a lot to just unpack real quick there.

Speaker 1: 6:35

Can you give me sort of like an example of what you mean, because you're saying obviously gives meaning to our individual experiences, but then this collective, shared experience that we can go back so. So can you kind of break down what you mean by that, meaning like, how can my experience shape your or or us as a group? You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 6:54

No, that's brilliant and it's a great question. And let's white belt this. Every culture on the face of the planet has a form of dance. Most dances are associated with wonderful, happy things the birth of a child, a marriage. There's other slow dirges that are associated with the movements where somebody has died and we're paying penance or giving them the honor of remembrance and stuff. Those are different than a person that's having a medical issue and is flopping around on the ground, Although the late 60s, early 70s, you might not have known the difference.

Speaker 2: 7:30

But that idea, for example sleeping, is different than death. So what happens? Is these subtle nuances between these flavors at Baskin-Robbins, when it's all just ice cream, help us determine what likely is going to happen next, what environment we're involved in. Is this a survival environment? Are these people in a cafeteria just eating? So what happens is, through veritable panacea of sensory input, our brain has to categorize, organize, to make sense of the environment, sense-making, and sense-making is the essential first step and decisions. So if you don't have one, like, for example, if your brain is unorganized or disorganized two very different concepts in psychology you're going to have a harder time sharing your reality, sharing your experiences, and I'm going to listen to you and go the fuck's wrong with this person rather than understanding that perhaps your perception is skewed in some manner. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 8:44

that we're, you know, processing everything or or thinking about everything, but really it's like we're taking these cues from our environment and, based on those past experiences, people were taught where we're sort of making these decisions, and this is, this is happening constantly in the background, like this is how we navigate things. So now what you're so you're saying is like the shared experiences. Now we create those to go like as a shortcut, like, oh, okay, I know what what the tribe means by that. I don't have to spend time thinking so the dance is a good dance. Something great must've happened as I'm approaching the village, you know so.

Speaker 2: 9:13

So it's like a it's a faster, exactly Brian, and that lines up my uh emotions, uh memory. I might need to to go back to hey, who was that girl? Is that the daughter of Johnny, or is that Billy's sister? All of those things start flooding in, and that's where organization comes in. If I don't have tabs on my file folder for the big items that are going to be in there, then what I'm doing is I'm searching for meaning and understanding in every nuanced thing that comes across my mouth. You can't survive that.

Speaker 1: 9:42

You can't do that, it's too many mental killers. Let's talk about that, that organization, right, and, and how that works. So I've, I've heard, you know, I I've kind of given one when someone's asked me a question, one analogy, and you, you tell me what you think of this is like like cause we use the term file folders. When I get my computer there's a whole bunch of programs and apps and things on there already, just when it's clean, right out of the box, right, and before I ever interacted with it, that help it, run it, help it does whatever the F it does in this magical machine that they give me that I just slowly turn my life over to more and more every single day, right, every day right day, right.

Speaker 1: 10:28

But then there's the folders I create to organize information, right. And then there's, within those folders, there might be some more folders or images or documents or whatever. And now that's how I organize stuff, because that's what, the way I use it. And then sometimes it can help me and say, do you want to categorize it this way, like meaning, do you want it all in alphabetical order in your desktop, or do you want to buy in order of the last time you open the file? So? So meaning, there's ones that I control, right, that I chose to categorize in a certain manner. But then there's this underlying sort of operating system that I don't mess with and in fact, when I get to some of those folders, you ever see some like it's like folders, which is like letters and numbers and stuff like that. And I have no idea what it means.

Speaker 1: 11:04

And I'm not going anywhere near that because I assume, if I change one letter like it's going to, just my computer is going to explode or something, Right, but but meaning? There's the ones we create right With these for sense, but then there's ones that are already there and I have no control over those, Greg.

Speaker 2: 11:25

And I have no idea what the hell they do. Now, I know they make my, my, my computer work, but I can't explain it. I certainly can't tell you how that works, right, but you don't need to. What you need to understand is that there's an overarching cable that's constantly streaming and constantly on in the back of your brain and and I speak in metaphors, everybody that knows me I'm streeting it up for you, so you don't have to go and spend the next decade studying this stuff.

Speaker 2: 11:43

It's this simple there's a bird and I've seen a bird on the wire and I've seen the movie the Bird on the Wire and I know that. There's Mark the Bird Fidrich that used to pitch for the Detroit Tigers, and there's Charlie Bird Parker. That's an amazing musician. They're all birds, brian, but they're very different birds. So we could go down that line forever. So that's meaning. Okay, the meaning behind the word bird is in the file, so the general file folder might say bird at the top. But then I've got all these uh, a napkin I wrote on a post-it note a photo that's how I.

Speaker 1: 12:19

You know that. No, that's how I. I named the different birds that that come around our house. There's one there's a hawk that keeps coming by and I'm like that's and you know I'll be gay that's ken. I named the different birds that come around our house. There's one there's a hawk that keeps coming by and I'm like that's Ken Harrelson. People are like what? Who's Ken? He was the announcer for the White Sox. He was hawk.

Speaker 2: 12:31

And like he was a baseball.

Speaker 1: 12:32

And then the crows that keep coming back, right I go. Well, that's the couple, that's Russell and Cheryl over there.

Speaker 2: 12:40

What you did is you put meaning to this sensory input as a manner of encoding. So you have two sides of that. You have meaning and understanding, and everybody that listens to me understands that words are important to me. So meaning is what does this mean? Understanding means what can I do with it? How can I pay that information forward? And that's especially meaningful and necessary when we're faced with an ambiguous situation one side of the coin, or a complex situation, the other side of the coin, or the big coin, which is the challenge that might foment a potential survival situation. You got to remember.

Speaker 2: 13:17

An ambiguous environment is just one that I'm not immediately understanding, that I'm going to baste myself into. I'm going to be in the oven do you get what I'm saying? Using some of the juices, and then after a while, oh shit, that's what this is. Okay. Then understanding is understanding. I'm in the middle of something. That's where situational awareness comes from. What is going on around me? How are they interconnected, if they are interconnected, and what can I use out of that sight, sound, feel, smell, to pay it forward, to give me an idea of how to decide what to do next?

Speaker 2: 13:46

And people look, we skip over this shit all the time. This is why my fundamental argument oh my God, it's Christmas, stop. But my fundamental argument with, when we deal with virtual reality and we've been in the field as long or longer than anybody that I know especially if we date back to our military stuff that we were doing for Fight JCTD and the underpinnings that surround that, brian when we talk about having a 270-degree screen or a 360-degree screen or lifelike or realistic or all that other stuff, look, there's limits to that. Because the way, if you come up with something that's whiz-bang and wonderful, I'll play it all day long, but that doesn't mean I'm learning from it and that doesn't mean that the encoding is occurring and that I'm getting meaning and understanding out of it. And this is the central argument.

Speaker 2: 14:34

A peer reviewed is going to say oh yeah, it was fun and I really enjoyed it, and when I came out of there I was like man, it's like nothing I've ever done. Well, none of that means that I got meaning or understanding out of that. Do you see, learning is a very different thing, and so if we're talking about brain-favoring organization and our overarching message today is how you orient towards things as a survival mechanism or a sense-making mechanism, then what we're saying, too, is we're purists. We go back to the science rather than searching out the next thing.

Speaker 1: 15:07

Is that a fair way of saying that? About poking at somebody? Well, and that's just people focusing on the wrong things and measuring the wrong things as well, right, they mean well right, yeah, and they never make it up to that Like this is why no one understands that they or someone wants to argue that, like we always say, training changes behavior. I'm looking for an outcome here and I'm looking for a behavioral change that leads an organizational outcome. And so you know, you're looking at very different very different than learning.

Speaker 1: 15:37

Like it's like oh, do you? You're gonna do an get a get a survey for everyone from from after. Like you know, when they're on the last day of the course, I'm like no, I already know what they're gonna say. I don't fucking care. Like well, well, isn't that important? Nope, what's important is when I get the call or the email or the text or the reach out a week later and go dude, you're not gonna believe this.

Speaker 1: 15:55

I saw exactly that and allowed me to intervene sooner. I didn't do this like that is a change of behavior that changed the outcome of a very dynamic situation.

Speaker 2: 16:04

That shows that that training changed the organization and the change was positive.

Speaker 1: 16:09

They were more mindful. Let's go back. Let's get back to where we're at here. Let's talk about sensemaking.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Sensemaking involves integrating new information into your existing mental model so that you can decision make. Stop for a minute, write that down, folks. Sense-making Integrating new incoming information into my existing mental model of the world, of this environment of today, of this minute, so that I can decision-make going forward. And decision-making is the necessary precursor to action. So everything that we do is preparing us for that next thing, or time would be meaningless if we don't have a series of events, a long timeline than the word time itself, and I like using space-time, the three dimensions of space and one dimension of time together in that, because that gives us a robust Hoberman Brian, that gives us the 360 we're really talking about.

Speaker 1: 17:06

So and this is who we use like, kind of like the file folders from mental models, and people have heard the term schema before. That's what we're talking about. I just I like our definition better because I think it makes more sense and it's easier to understand. No, it just feels better. Yeah, I agree, Right, Well, it's just easier to understand.

Speaker 2: 17:20

There's a scientific argument that's going to say though the brain is not organized in file folders. That's not true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get that argument, but for me to understand this vast, complex series of memories and how I can only add a file folder in a photograph makes a lot of sense to me.

Speaker 1: 17:37

Yeah, the computer analogy is okay. There's stuff in there that I don't touch. There's stuff in there that I do touch.

Speaker 2: 17:49

And're all working together and I'm not fully understand it, but at some of it I do understand. Yeah, and it's getting warm right now. You know what I mean. But but my, my microwave opens and my coffee's hot. I don't exactly understand it. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1: 17:57

It's not radiation, folks. It speeds up the water molecules. But anyway it's, it's, that's uh that's an experiment, well, kind of.

Speaker 1: 18:06

But so here's the thing. So you just said that sensemaking involves integrating new information into your existing mental model of the world that you can decision make. So I don't want to get something, because I see this come up now and finally, more people realizing there's some stuff on some social media that these different companies or different organizations put out and they're, you know, saying like, hey, cognitive training, if you, if you're, you know, trying to, and their, their example is, if you're doing, you know, chess exercises in between, something that's not gonna fucking do anything. It's the same thing. It's like the lumosity app and all these brain game things like this. Is just that doesn't that gets you better at the game that you're playing. That doesn't get you better at decision making or critical thinking or any of those skill sets.

Speaker 2: 18:56

And this is what we've been telling you for years, while it's in motion, with a person bumping, but that that doesn't transfer over to anything else other than that specific thing, and here's why I'm bringing that up no more than reading a book, Brian. No more than reading a book or watching a television show. You're exactly right.

Speaker 1: 19:11

So you're saying sense making involves integrating new information to your existing mental model of the world, and we already said that sense making gives us some meaning to our experiences and we can sort of and not just for us, but shared so can you, can you sort of modify or enhance someone else's mental models through training?

Speaker 2: 19:34

Yes, of course, and you can share your experiences through storytelling and through training the proper way of training so that that person's brain doesn't know they weren't there. That person's brain feels as though they were there, at ground zero when you had that experience. And it's not exactly the same, but it's close enough. Greg Williams patented the theory of close enough dozens of years ago folks to show you that your brain doesn't care. I answered Willis, Brian Willis, I respect you and admire you if you're listening to this, Brian.

Speaker 1: 20:08

Willis had a great post.

Speaker 2: 20:09

okay, and I added to the post a little bit of friction, a little bit of imagination. That's called masturbation. I had to use self-gratification or something because LinkedIn had thrown me off for six months. But the idea is, your brain is so powerful that it gets where you're trying to go and it's actually trying to help you get there, Brian.

Speaker 1: 20:27

So when you're listening in Well, no one else is helping me get there.

Speaker 2: 20:29

Yeah, exactly, because you shouldn't ask those questions in a McDonald's drive-thru. But the idea is, if you were and you know you do if you're sitting there in a classroom and then you're going out to the range and then you're going to the interactive portion of defensive tactics, all of that stuff is magic. But what has to happen is your brain has to assign meaning to it.

Speaker 2: 20:51

And the meaning has to be I understand this so that I can recognize similar situation in the future and apply this answer. So the primary sense-making tools and you alluded to it at the very beginning are our sight, our hearing, our touch, our smell, our taste. There is no sixth sense. So if we're trying to cultivate a sixth sense, look yet. Of course you have instinct, okay, but your instinct are something that must be cultivated over time, okay. So, so it takes time, it takes time. So how do you do that With training?

Speaker 2: 21:25

Education is wonderful but, I, can't read a book to learn how to ride a bike.

Speaker 1: 21:32

At some point I have to get out and get on the gosh damn bike. Especially a lot of people that listen to our podcast or folks that are involved with training or anything. They understand that part.

Speaker 2: 21:44

But the thing you said hang on.

Speaker 1: 21:45

You said you said cognitively close enough, because I brought up that case of that other kind of social media posts and the way people talk about the different chess games because we've come across other folks that that have done that as well.

Speaker 1: 21:55

But but it's not that bad, it's just that your point is wrong well, it'll help you get better at that game, not necessarily at the thing that you're learning. That's not the end state. The end state is the real world application and even what these people said is like well, it has to be. Your training has to be close to what you're likely to encounter and expect to see, and you want it as close as possible for the best type of you know the best type of kind of retention of that skill set. But I think people get it wrong when they say that, because then it was like you know, when you do the military stuff, it's like all right, we're going to have the fake IDs and the people that speak Arabic and people coming out with legs missing and squirting blood and this, that the other thing.

Speaker 2: 22:40

It's like hang on Right.

Speaker 1: 22:47

Some of that. Some of that may be integral or important, but will we, could you? I want just you to take a second to define a little bit more, because we use the term cognitively close enough. So it's not about fooling my prefrontal cortex and my conscious brain, it's about fooling or engaging that unconscious part of it. So it doesn't have to be right, it's like you just said a little bit of fiction, a little bit of friction and my brain goes oh, it's procreation time, it doesn't care. That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 23:14

Exactly right. So, look, you know that I go antler hiking every year and I always take the kids' kids. And when we go out there we're in an area that has a high mountain lion population. So the first thing that you start seeing is bleach bones, which is a long-time exposure to the environment. Then, all of a sudden, you see bones that have meat and fur on them. Then you smell decomposition and immediately your senses are heightened because your brain is telling you danger.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Warning Will Robinson, we have an apex predator around here. You are now in the home of the predator. Warning Will Robinson, we have an apex predator around here. You are now in the home of the predator. You don't have to put a lot of thinking to that. But what we do then is walk backwards and go through all of those artifacts and evidence that led us up to that, and some are visual, some are dactyl Brian, we have to touch them, okay. Some are nose, we have to smell them. And what happens is we filled this robust file folder full of those experiences and say, okay, I smelled the same thing when I was by i-70 searching for antlers, but that was due to a motor vehicle hitting the deer, okay, or elk, or whatever animal that right right posing.

Speaker 2: 24:20

But here I noticed that the pieces are separated and the meat is missing, not because of decomposition, but because it's likely been eaten. And you're going where the fuck are you going in this detailed story about a mountain lion? Because that's how your brain learns. That's how I'm going to be able to take that shared experience and pass it forward to somebody that's never been antler hiking and never encountered a cougar before. So survival means that not just I can get to the finish line, but I can bring my tribe too, and that's why the shared experiences are so essential, right?

Speaker 2: 24:48

So our senses allow us to gather information from our environment through all of those different senses. Then the brain processes that information so we can understand but, more important, interpret the environment around us. We can make assumptions about the future and about the rest of the world around us. If this is here, then it probably is the same there. If these are poisoned here, that's probably the same there. If balled up fists here mean I'm going to be fighting, they're likely. So that's how we learn to use them, and situational awareness is a comparison from the now to the likely future. That's what we have to remember, and we don't use it that way.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Science is so important and you're, the important thing to highlight about every, basically, example you just brought up is like these are all very primitive. These are primitive, hardwired, and I actually had someone who's like. I remember hearing this story about this person. I wasn't personally involved in the incident, but I knew right away when I, when someone was telling me where this woman was, like you know God, it was this weird smell and I don't know. Just I thought it was like a smelling like burning human flesh and I don't know it was like smelling like burning human flesh. And the person was like, have you ever smelled that before? And they're like no, and this woman was right and someone was burning a body.

Speaker 1: 26:03

But those are the things where it's like, if you've smelled something like that before, your brain goes, this isn't fucking right, there's something wrong. That's such a primitive, hardwired response to know that this person who was, who was in and who, who was, just experienced something that one almost no one experiences and two, never done it before and kind of already knew what it was. Okay, where did you gain that knowledge? Meaning there's all that unconscious stuff happening under the surface, that that this is what we stick to and this is what we think is important, because it's far more important than anything else, because it's been around the longest out of anything, and and and those premises even like you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 26:41

Like bald fist, I do the, the terrorist does that, max does that. He's, you know, 17 months old. He gets angry Right and what does it immediately do? Balls his fist. That's a primitive thing. No one taught him that Right, so it's, it's, it's so the the. I just want to hit on that Cause, all of those things, even like you're talking, you're walking me through the decomposing body and this and like I can smell it, I can see it, I know what you're talking about. Like man, I could teach anyone that and they're going to get it and write one there. And that's what you mean by those shared experiences, shared file folders and so now go back to that bird analogy, brian.

Speaker 2: 27:11

Now I don't have to say it's a mountain lion or a cougar, it could be a pack of coyotes, it could be in Africa, or it could be in Antarctica with a polar bear. The ideas are sound enough that I can transmit the information and you can put your personal touch on it and go oh, I know what he means, I know what she means, means, I know what she means. That's the beauty of the storytelling. That goes along with the lived experience, or at least the assumed experience that we get. That's what training gives us. Training can't always give us the real thing, but training can equate and if the training is cognitively close enough, we're allowed to do the rest.

Speaker 1: 27:48

We're allowed to finish. Your brain will fill in the details.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Rarely will it be wrong. Rarely will it be wrong. When will it be wrong? Shitty training where physics don't apply. Where somebody says hey, you can shoot the axe and split the bullet and kill both of the terrorists at the same time, and we've all seen that and I had an example on somebody who's going to write in. But Cody did that yeah, he did it one time.

Speaker 1: 28:13

And I went there so I don't yeah the one, but the one marine marine sniper who put one 50 caliber office around through a cinder block and they killed two people with it.

Speaker 2: 28:22

It's like okay and so now on the range, brian, they, they train, just that shot and shut up. So so that that's the stuff I classify as the behavior-oriented vision, where yeah, it occur, but it's not Look. So I got to tell you about this call because it happened at Christmas.

Speaker 2: 28:40

I got a call down to Hinsdale County. Hinsdale County is 90 minutes, under ideal circumstances in the winter, to get to from where I'm at and there's no other coppers that can respond to it, and the female's burning up the line, calling dispatch and Gunnison I don't know if I should go into much more detail than that. And the call is that hey, there are deer, specifically mule deer, flying through the neighbor's backyard. Okay, that's great. So how much of you?

Speaker 2: 29:04

have Like Santa Claus reindeer, yeah, so there are mule deer flying through my neighbor's yard and you need to send somebody down here because it's a wild Akashian thing. And now it's drawn a crowd and the people are wondering what's going on. So I get in the sled, I drive down there the whole way. I'm getting updates from dispatch. There's now 15 people at the scene and some kids have seen it as well, and all this. So I'm going. Okay, prank gag, mass hysteria. You get what I'm saying. It's a long drive, so I'm going through all this stuff. I get there, it's hours of darkness, I'm standing where the people are standing and you hear the clomp, clomp, clomp, clomp, clomp associated with the running deer. And then all of a sudden, you see the shadow no shit of a deer flying against the buildings. And then the next one lines up and goes too. And I'm going. Okay, this is the greatest animation.

Speaker 2: 29:49

I've ever seen what it was is a mule deer buck was walking through a neighborhood backyard and got his antlers caught in the gosh damn clothesline. And there's clotheslines that make like an octagon, where they go up like an umbrella upside down a fan, and so this one was designed so when you're hanging the clothes you can just move it to the right, spin it around. So when the mule deer buck was going through the backyard, its antlers got stuck and he was running along the aluminum siding of one house, landing back on the ground, running along the wood on the other house, and the light from the Christmas tree lights made it look animated. So there was one after the other deer lining up running and flying.

Speaker 2: 30:25

Okay so, brian, because I didn't have a file folder for an effing mule deer. I'm from Detroit you get what I'm trying to say and I'd never had a clothesline in my entire life. That was a whole different thing. In Detroit, you hung your clothes out.

Speaker 2: 30:36

somebody else borrowed it if you know what I'm saying and didn't return it. And I had never seen this and the mass hysteria was working on me that visual and perceptual skills that I was bringing in made no sense. I had nothing to compare it against. So finally, I had to talk to a very dear friend I'm not going to name either. That was at the time the DOW, which is now CPW, and I go what the hell is going on and he explained it to me and we got the deer loose and walked over there and it was the damnedest thing in the world. And if we had to recreate it, brian, only Hollywood or Bollywood could probably do that. Computers now AI, might be able to do that right, but it was the wildest damn thing. So it had the whole community in an uproar. It had dispatch in an uproar. Everybody needed to know what was going on and because it was before the time of the gosh damn best phone in the world, my little phone for all the cameras and videos.

Speaker 2: 31:25

I wasn't able to take a photo to fully show everybody what I was seeing. But guess what? Everybody there now has that one wild ass explanation. So nine years from now in Israel, when a gosh damn goat is caught up in a jump rope and doing the same thing, one of those people will go. Well, you know what I saw in Hinsdale County.

Speaker 2: 31:45

And now we've solved for X, brian. That's the beauty of shared information. So the orientation is forced orientation because I was called to the scene. The other type of orientation was functional field of view oriented that you brought up earlier and and yeah, a miscommunication there too, if I might segue right into that. So when you're standing still and you're looking straight ahead, okay, and you're not moving your eyes, your saccades your brain. We can go back through optic nerve and all that.

Speaker 2: 32:13

The op tempo of our course doesn't allow us to go into such great detail, but understand that there's basically four levels or four stages. Your head's not moving, you're looking straight ahead. Males have a six-degree functional field of view in this situation. Females about double that, about 11. And what that means is I can process visual information in my new visual field, this straight ahead, not moving my eyes. Then the second is slight movement of my eyes to track a target with other things that are competing for my attention. Then the third is I have to also move my head, and now I'm moving my head and my eyes. And then the final one is I have to orient my body. I literally have to orient my body. So our brain gives us light, motion and edges and then our hard wiring gives us. These are some environmental cues you need to pay attention to because they could call your life.

Speaker 2: 33:01

And between that, between that rich tapestry of knowledge that we're started off with as kids and the stuff that we learned from kids all the way to adult, like catching a ball, throwing a ball at a target, those type of things what happens is we're able to use behavior-oriented vision and now we have a mental trigger, whether we acknowledge them or not, that orients us towards potential danger or potential opportunity. It's really simple when you think of it in those terms, right, Because you can see that lining up.

Speaker 2: 33:30

But what happens is vision and if we start reading about it we get overwhelmed. And next time we're at the optometrist he slaps us and says stop because we're asking so many questions. You don't need to get so detailed to understand the basics of human vision and how to process information visually.

Speaker 1: 33:45

Yeah, and so you hit up on those big things, is that functional field of view, which is very limited, very small, a lot smaller than what people think. All right, you have strong central vision and then your peripheral kind of can alert you to things, all right. And then you then we tie that in with orientation. So I, so I you know, think of if you know, picture you're, you're walking past something, if you ever have it, where something caught you know the corner of your eye or something like that, and you did like the double take and you turned, and then, oh crap, it was powerful enough for you to turn your whole body and look at that. That's what we mean by that functional field of view and orientation lining up. So so what your brain did for you unconsciously, is say, hey, there's something going on over here. I don't know what it is, it could fucking kill us. So why don't you thrill?

Speaker 1: 34:27

us Right, or we can eat it whatever if you're hungry, but but, and then it will force your it, unconsciously, it tells you, turn and face that direction, and so you will actually turn and face that direction so that, just like you said, all of our senses are aligned to the front, which is what we're designed as humans for forward motion and moving forward, right, and to pick up what that is. Now it it might be nothing, and, and so think about those things. When it was nothing was, oh, it was just, it's just a cat making noise, it came over the fence, whatever. When it's nothing, okay, that what it is. What that means is that all that stuff is happening underneath, right, and and so it's basing it on. So things you've learned in your life, your experience, what you've heard, maybe that ghost story, maybe that boogeyman story, maybe this. So whether it's real or not doesn't matter, if it's fiction or non-fiction, your brain goes. This is important. We know about something over here. Use all of your senses to figure out what it is. Okay, it's nothing. What what that means is it was at some point your brain determined.

Speaker 1: 35:28

And we talk about the brain is sort of a separate thing, because it's really just like your conscious awareness versus unconscious awareness of those things, right, but we, just we, we talk about it in this sort of like there's you and then there's your brain and your eyes technically evolved from your brain, so they're technically part of it, but we, you know, we, we parse those out.

Speaker 1: 35:45

But when you do that, right it, what it's saying, it was something was going on over here that is cognitively close enough to some trigger or some threat, arousal trigger or hunger arousal trigger, whatever it is that we want to attend to it, we want to attend it, to want to pay complete attention to it. So when we use those terms cognitively close enough that's another example of what we mean by that. When we say, look, your brain didn't know it needed an extra second, it needed to spend a little extra time on this to justify what it was and what it thinks it might be, to make sure it wasn't something dangerous. So it's cognitively close enough, and so that's a very, very powerful term that we use that sometimes we don't because we can't get into everything and the meaning behind everything.

Speaker 2: 36:36

Even on a podcast, you can't, Brian. So let's go deeper and cognitively close enough for the purists that are also listening to us. What's shape dependability? Well, shape dependability is when I've seen these shapes in the past, they were always a car. When I saw those shapes in the past, they were always a ball. When I saw those shapes in the past, they were always a horse. So your brain has a file folder that does that autonomically Form recognition. Hey, that's Talyer, the shaved ape. I can tell by the amazing guns he's carrying around and bald head leaning forward with a 12-inch forehead One step back in that evolution scale.

Speaker 1: 37:08

He's like one step. We love you, Eric.

Speaker 2: 37:11

We do love you Sides of an object. I've never seen an elephant in a matchbook. So many stories there. Dominance, in other words, the things that I see more than other things.

Speaker 2: 37:20

Directionality, the way something is oriented towards or away from me, is meaningful Visual manipulation. That's why we do the Holberman. We can lift it up mentally and use our visualization and imagination to think of what likely happened. That's what we mean by cognitive close enough we can go into that. The simple answer on that is we orient based on environmental triggers, that's, light, motion and edges. And why? So that we can take in all this information, the visual input from our eyes and the rest of our senses related to our current situation, our past experiences, whether it's real or learned in training, and then relate it to the other senses to make sense out of it all. So the whole goal is to plan for action.

Speaker 2: 37:58

So you said something I want to bring up and folks listen to what I'm saying. Brian brought up about the cat. Okay, I just saw a cat on a fence. So I saw a cat on a fence and I see the direction it jumps. The next thing I should be thinking is what pushed that cat out of that backyard, or what's that cat going for, or has that cat ever been there before? Because intentionality to me, the intent of seeing that cat, is hugely important. There's a burglary going on next door and the cat was let out accidentally and it's a house cat, not a, not a local cat. Do you see how the world is full of stories? But we're never going to see him if we're walking around with blinders and we don't take that information processing step. So the most curious people have survival advantage in an environment and, brian, that's why we teach about curiosity, that's why in?

Speaker 2: 38:45

class. We're talking about how important that phase is because those companion skills are wonderful. But if you don't have that orientation that gets visual input the largest field and to humans now, through evolution, the most important field it's essential to move our functional field of view so our brain can account for our position, the target's position, and then relate them to the nuances of the environment. If we can't do the known unknown against the baseline, then our brain will never be able to go to the right file folder in time. And there's your gosh damn training range guy. There's your training driving instructor. I wish Pablo was on here because he would understand what we're talking about?

Speaker 2: 39:25

Yeah, he does and little Joe would understand in terms of defensive tactics, and our shooter friends would understand that. But what happens, brian, is we also don't spread load that knowledge across all of these fields. We come upon that knowledge and all of a sudden, oh look at this new thing. It's been around forever. We just didn't think about the cognitive process, our cognitive gym, brian, has been around for over two decades now. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And we feel that it's the right way of taking your training, because your visual field isn't enough and your visual acuity isn't enough. I understand that you can see very well, but if you can't process what you're seeing into digestible chunks for your brain, then those perceptions are worthless.

Speaker 1: 40:05

Yeah, and, and this is that's all. That's a lot to sort of unpack and that's a lot happening. No, no, no no. I did a bunch in a row in my mind.

Speaker 2: 40:16

Yeah, yeah, but that's how it works.

Speaker 1: 40:17

Right, and and and, and, and. Actually, what you're demonstrating here is the ability to. We've got to go back to the. My computer analogy here is to use all of your file folders more effectively. Right so? Because?

Speaker 1: 40:32

because you know, your brain basically has unlimited memory. However, our recall isn't always that great, or? Or if I don't link those things together, if everything I learn is if I always have separate file folders on my desktop on my computer and they never interact and I don't draw from multiple ones, then they stay sort of siloed in these areas and I can't access them. The idea is because how your brain can make neural connections is it can connect all of those together. Right, it can create a neural network in a sense that accesses all of that, and then you can get better at priming it for certain things, like you know.

Speaker 1: 41:13

You it's just like so I have a Mac and it has an iCloud, so what it does is the if I don't open certain folders or files for a while, it goes okay, you're not using this. I'm going to upload this to the iCloud. You don't need it on your physical computer because you're not at. You haven't accessed this thing in a year, so it's just wasted space. Now, if I go to it and I'm searching something I need, it's got to download that real quick for a second and then I can open up that Word document or whatever it was from a year ago, right, it's kind of like that in a sense. But if I want that all on my desktop, but just the most relevant ones are going to be right there at the front, they're going to be top of mind, they're going to be and that might be contextually based right, so so that that the things I need top of mind for you know, my, my family coming into town for the holidays is different than I need them for you know, a surveillance mission.

Speaker 2: 42:06

Buy a frozen piece to cover your bruised eye when your dad gives you a black eye. Those types of things Exactly.

Speaker 1: 42:12

No, no, he's, no, no, he's a lover, not a fighter anymore, because he can't fight, he's too old. So he's now transitioned to that next phase of oh no, we're all good and we had a great time. And you know, I was a great father and I taught you to be a great father.

Speaker 2: 42:26

Don't you remember that Exactly?

Speaker 1: 42:28

Oh, that's a different thing about memory. So you see how that gets switched around. You're like me and my brother look at each other like we were there. That's not what happened at all, but anyway. So I'm going back to that. For recall and orientation big picture Now, I think we kind of covered sort of that tactical micro level of functional field of view and orientation, recognition and anticipation and how those things work. Now there's a lot of detail that we can go into about all those things, but let's kind of go from now sort of the, the, the, so, what of all of this and the larger picture of what how significant orientation is and what we mean. It just not now, like hey, I walk past something, I hear a noise, I turn and orient. What does that mean? Then to that next step sociologically, because we covered it about sharing things.

Speaker 2: 43:18

You know what I'm saying, so let's save a life, first, to make sure people are still attending to us. So let's save a life right now by saying this the phobia is called the phobia because that means pit in Latin, and it's a little divot at the back of your eye that takes all of that chunked information and throws it back to our brain. So, what so? What so? If you understand foveal vision and you understand that your functional field of view is about six degrees, then what you understand is those things that are right in front of you are the most important to your brain, and then that goes to central vision, then that goes to peripheral vision. So, from the most important to the least important. So, what so?

Speaker 2: 43:55

Functional field of view helps us do stuff like reading. Well, reading wasn't survival-based when we were kids. It had another purpose, so we had to learn that over time. So, what so? If you read from left to right, like I read, then when you want to look at your environment, you should look from right to left, because that's contrary to the way that your brain has been tested and trained, and that means it'll be nuanced, so it'll be easier to find an anomaly. What's that mean? That when you're doing your five and 25s with your bino, go from right to left. Now if you're from Israel or Russia, you may have to change that and do it the exact opposite. But if you understand that principle, that small of a principle, that's cognitively linking this information about the functional field of view to how you can use that to survive in an environment.

Speaker 2: 44:40

Brian, and you know what, if there's a sniper school that's teaching that, good on you. But if hunters aren't teaching that to their kids, or if that's not an NRA course somewhere, then they're failing to tie some of those file folders together, like you were talking about. It's there for a reason. So the historical reason, the survival reason, is the most important. So understanding your functional field of view is crucial for you to assess potential anomalies within your visual field and specifically in situations where you need to quickly identify objects, whether that's survival or opportunistic, or you're navigating a complex and extremist environment. Potential danger the ice is thinner out there. You get what I'm trying to say and, brian, you know me. I classify survival as one thing and danger as an all-encompassing thing, because we don't know what that danger might be.

Speaker 1: 45:27

It might be a long-term danger from smoking which is different from immediate survival right.

Speaker 2: 45:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah and talk rods and cones, but the base level of it is, if you understand, that orientation forces my functional field of view to the unknown why? Because it may have meaning and that meaning may help me make a decision in a very, very important danger or survival situation or opportunity. And I always put opportunity last. I don't want to miss opportunity.

Speaker 1: 46:11

Yeah, and it's searching for an answer and a reasonable explanation for everything, and if it doesn't quite have one, it'll jump to whatever the closest thing is that I've heard even if it's wrong. Even if it's wrong, you're exactly right it's a lot of a lot of ufo sightings could be classified as that there were deer flying in the yard on christmas.

Speaker 2: 46:33

They were.

Speaker 1: 46:34

They were lined up, brian and jumping off the stage and flying it's what's what's happening, you know, right right now on the Eastern seaboard and especially New Jersey and everywhere, which is having some hilarious conversations with some other folks about it, and it's it's. Everyone wants to come up with wild stories. It's usually the simplest thing.

Speaker 2: 46:50

But if you don't tell me, then my mind will create the reality. If I don't have a story for it, then my mind will create. As a matter of fact, if you go back to most stories, they'll either have a like. That's why some people go oh it's folklore. Yeah, I get folklore, but folklore came from somewhere. It was to teach a message. Aesop's fables were to teach us how to do something better. Look, have you ever watched what's that gosh damn show? Shelly liked it with Sheldon and the blonde girl and all his scientist buddies.

Speaker 1: 47:22

The Big Bang Theory.

Speaker 2: 47:24

Big Bang Theory yeah, okay. So I love Sheldon on Big Bang when I get a chance to watch it and I love the reruns because it's very well written. What and I love the reruns because it's very well written what happens is Sheldon doesn't understand the sociological implications of being Sheldon, so it's always creating an uncomfortable situation that he goes into and he says things that are on his mind when he shouldn't and he does things that seem off-putting to others and stuff. If you want to understand what your brain is like without the context and relevance of functional field of view and orientation of sense-making and decision-making, watch that show. Just one episode and you get it right away.

Speaker 1: 47:58

just follow shelvin I, I see you're, you're, you're, you're really, really connecting with this character, sheldon greg. Is there any reasons? I? Connect with a lot of things that don't have sex very often and are deep thinkers that nobody understands you bastard, but you get it.

Speaker 2: 48:18

I totally understand.

Speaker 1: 48:19

I associate with that.

Speaker 2: 48:26

Look, there are times that I come into a room and I know I'm the one that's off-putting, only because what I'm trying to do is my form of making sense of an environment, isn't yours, and so I'm trying to open your aperture by using an alternative methodology that your brain will understand. I'm much more in tune with the primitive brain than I am with whatever current shit is on the market.

Speaker 1: 48:49

And you specifically are doing that sometimes intentionally.

Speaker 2: 48:53

Deliberately Most of the time. You're exactly right.

Speaker 1: 48:55

Most of the time. Look at this shirt. You don't think this is deliberate. Come on, so you chose that You're telling me.

Speaker 2: 49:02

You chose the one, it chose me right. That's so funny.

Speaker 1: 49:09

What was the Tommy boy where? He's like what's that smell? He's like, oh, that's pine tree air freshener.

Speaker 2: 49:14

He's like good.

Speaker 1: 49:15

First step is identifying. The second step is getting rid of it.

Speaker 2: 49:18

Doing something about it. You're exactly right.

Speaker 2: 49:20

No look look, look, I know I'm an acquired taste, but the idea is that when people think that making an environment busy makes it more challenging to the brain, all you're doing is confusing your survival brain. You don't need all of those external things unless you assign meaning to them. So, having the smell of decomposition without giving the halt signal, taking a knee and explaining what that means to the brain and then revisiting that in the future time and time again during a situation that you're trying to prompt somebody for danger. If you don't do it that way, brian, it's meaningless and it's. It's a bunch of fidelity that your brain doesn't need and so it's great and you'll clap and you'll get the award for.

Speaker 2: 50:03

Oh my god, look at these. You know what do they call it? The visual effects and the cgi. Okay, but your brain calls bullshit. And and that's why most movies are about an hour and a half too long now Because you know the people go hey, I fucking got it, and now it's a protracted fist fight. How come Aquaman can speak to the fishes, but he still resorts to punching somebody? You know those type of things, and that's what I want to do with art, brian. We've known each other for a long time. And what were three out of the five things that I said you'd never heard before? You conducted your own research and guess what? It changed the trajectory of your life. That's what we're trying to do with the podcast, that's what we're doing with our in-person training and with the book is we're trying to say can you?

Speaker 2: 50:45

back off the gas pedal for a minute and try to make more sense of your environment. Look at how rich and fulfilling your life could be.

Speaker 1: 50:52

Well, that was my first was like, okay, this guy's hilarious and he's completely full of shit and no, I know some of that.

Speaker 2: 51:00

Well, yeah, yeah, of course, of course it was on my Christmas card. I can show you.

Speaker 1: 51:06

Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2: 51:07

I still know you're full of shit, and one of these days I'll be able to prove it.

Speaker 1: 51:11

But but no, no, no. And because what my that you did to just to speak to that point? It was that I said these are heavy, complex subjects you're bringing up and there's no way, you know, especially at that, at that time, my age, or with that experience that I had, it was like there's no way. It's this simple. Like you, I get where you're going, but no, dude, you can't just say that, you can't just say that, you can't just say this, like you can't just put those things together. Those are, you know, very, very heavy, complex subjects that we're kind of still, especially anything with neuroscience and brain, and before you even get to, it, and it's all still new.

Speaker 1: 51:54

You know before you even get to and it's all still new. You know it's right. Right, we're still. We don't like we don't fully understand how the brain works. We, we kind of we're, I don't know how far in we are with it. It's like the same thing, like you know the universe. It's like, well, here's some things we know. The farther out we go, we're unsure. We don't know as people. Well, I thought you said the universe started four billion. Now you're saying it's 15. It's like, yeah, because we learn new things. I don't fucking know, dude. Like what we knew in 1960 is, yeah, but that was my thing. But what you're really trying to do is tie this back to those primitive signals.

Speaker 2: 52:27

Start there One primitive pure signal that you can use right now. That you can use. Yes, Brian, when you walked out of that class you did not believe anything. I was saying.

Speaker 1: 52:35

No.

Speaker 2: 52:36

Until you walked out into your environment and you tried a couple of the things and you said they work. Holy crap, they work. They're oversimplified, but they work. Why do we need to make these concepts?

Speaker 2: 52:45

so I don't have to understand the internal combustion engine to drive to the 7-Eleven, I don't you know. And that's that's my argument. My argument is when you look out the window, your brain is processing what's out that window. Just because you're sitting on a bunch of books and you got a PhD degree in your fucking pocket doesn't make you any smarter than me. That's the problem with thinking nowadays is you can convey those ideas and messages to me so I can be as safe as you are in that environment without me having to go and get a college degree.

Speaker 1: 53:13

Well, you, I don't know where this quote came from, but it's something I heard where it was. You know, the only way to fully understand a theory is to either derive the conclusion yourself or prove it wrong. Right, you, you sort of have to like. I thought it was. That was just a general thing. I was like man that kind of makes sense you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: 53:32

Right, right it's. It was a pretty profound thing that I'd heard, and and so we're we're getting into. So we did, you, you did sort of just explain the internal combustion engine when it comes to orientation, right.

Speaker 2: 53:46

So we sort of explained that Right, because now was the time to take more time to understand that your senses grant your body so you can collect vital information. No, no.

Speaker 1: 53:57

And that was the purpose of this. That was the purpose of this. So the next part that I kind of want to get into is okay, got it. We've explained the internal combustion engine, we've explained orientation. So now I'm in the car, driving, but I'm not the only one on the road right, and everyone else is too. So what does this mean sociologically? Because what we, we don't always choose, or we, we think we choose what we attend to, but oftentimes it's not like I always tell you know everyone, yes, humans have free will and we have agency, but it's a lot less free will than we think right. Meaning that the folders, the operating system in that computer have way more control than I do. And what I'm setting it up right, it just does, it runs it. I think I'm manipulating it and I'm getting better at it and we're creating tools to maybe help.

Speaker 1: 54:51

Like, my biggest thing is the new updates and different technology. Everyone wants to come out with some whiz bang shit before we even understand what we already have. So it's like the best ones for me are the ones that allow me to use what I have better. So now, like the search function on my computer is way better now, like I can just type in some words and I'll bring it up. Look at if you have an iPhone, like with photos. Now you can search a word like you know, I want dogs and it analyzes photos and give you every photo with a dog and you're like that's fucking powerful. That's way better than trying to think of where I was and I took a photo of that dog and what time it was and what date it was, and I have thousands of photos in there. So that's the idea and that's almost like what we're talking about with, with, with how we approach that training because, yeah, I can use that better.

Speaker 1: 55:35

So so how does these different societal factors sort of play into that orientation, meaning, meaning, and maybe what are some of the outcomes? So like, if we're all talking about something, we don't always know how important it is, right, it feels like whatever's coming out out, whatever's happening right now, is the most important thing to us, because everything is, we're egocentric for survival of us in the species and we think everything is the worst thing ever. But with time you go on to go remember that thing everyone was arguing about like two years ago turns out like they're not really that fucking important anymore, exactly.

Speaker 1: 56:09

So so we but we can't weigh that out in the moment.

Speaker 1: 56:13

So it and part of this part of this discussion is how communication has changed very rapidly in a short amount of time, so let's say, over the last 10 years, really rapidly. And then then covid kind of accelerated that in a sense, because then people started adopting some newer technologies at a larger scale. But but everyone's fear is or or people talk about, especially like parents with kids it's like all this shit's rotting their brain and it's this and and now we're doing because sometimes it is and it can be bad, and they're saying, well, it's rewiring us, it's changing us, and it's like, well, okay, I either. There's meaning you can find evidence to support that claim, sure, but it's, it's, it's is that to me.

Speaker 1: 56:59

I'm going like is this changing the trajectory or is this a blip on the radar?

Speaker 1: 57:05

it's a change in moment or is it because most, most things become a blip on the radar, like I, which I love when people go back and bring up quotes from the past and they completely misunderstand them and you know it's like people are quoting. You're writing some big thing about you know socrates, and he said this and I'm like, and I'm like. My response is socrates would disagree with everything you just said. Like, what do you mean? It's like well, one that motherfucker didn't believe in writing things down. He thought that was lazy and you should be able to memorize everything. So they'd be against your social media posts because you shouldn't be writing it down. You should be able to explain. It's like this, is it's?

Speaker 2: 57:44

now you're taking. So let me give you a couple of for instances. Yeah, I mean, let's do a couple of for instances along at space time. So the smartest human I know know is Shelly and I don't mean just the smartest female that I know, I mean human, the one that I most admire. She edits a lot of my stuff mentally and physically and verbally and, you know, corrects me when I need correcting.

Speaker 1: 58:05

I was going to say physically, physically Abusive Because she beats my ass and I need it though.

Speaker 2: 58:10

Yeah, because she beats my ass and I need it though. But she works in an environment where she sees daily that kids of a certain age come in and have no idea how to sign their own names because they've never been forced to do it, or understand how cursive writing works, because it's not been challenged or taught and therefore it's a lost art form. Now, brian, I don't often eat out, but when we're on the road we kind of have to. We stop at a healthy place and grab some stuff for the hotel and then go to a healthy restaurant. And you know I always carry the pink phone everywhere I go, and the function I think I use most, other than photography, is my calculator, because I want to leave a nice tip and I don't want to be an idiot, because teacher taught me a long time ago move the decimal point do this and that.

Speaker 2: 58:57

I'm from Detroit man. I don't know how to fucking do any of that. So what I do is I enter the number in and multiply it by the thing, and it tells me what to do. I noticed on Monday it was that I went and got some chow for Shell and I cause it was a very busy day, First time in town in a long time and I said, oh, I didn't bring my calculator. And the woman said, no problem, Look at the bottom of your receipt.

Speaker 2: 59:20

Brian had had all the different calculations necessary and all I had to do was tap the one that I wanted. Well, that's just like the curse of writing. The more I have to press a button like what's your own phone number, what's your dad's phone number? Well, I don't do that because I press dad on my phone. What happens is when we supplant, when we exchange, when we stop using those old methods to make fire okay, to splint a leg what happens is the more that we use that app and the more we look at the phone. I can give you one that costs us money. How many times you've been in the light? The light changes. You look left and right to make sure nobody's running the light and you move forward and there's cars still sitting still, yeah, and you look at them and they're all playing Angry Birds or looking down at their phone. Yeah, that costs tens of millions, if not billions of dollars.

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

That's billions yeah, so what happens?

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

is. Those are impacts that we're feeling now and somebody would point at those and go that's changed how humans think.

Speaker 1: 1:00:12

Yeah. So here's my argument against that. All right, because, especially because writing is a great one, but writing has not been around very long and there's still plenty of countries in the world where only 25 to 50 percent of the people in that country can even write or read.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

Exactly I get. What you're saying is following a logical that that makes sense. Okay, we're doing this less, so is that going to go away? But but is it did? Did that come up and then now going away? Because it's because societally we've evolved past the necessity for it, right? You know what I'm saying and that's what everyone gets into when they try to.

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

But my argument with you and it's a continuous argument that we both have is we don't know, because it's going to take. For the least of us it's going to take 1,000 or 10,000 years to figure out, and for those real big muscle movements, brian, that have been around with us since birth, it may take longer than our planet has left to decide. So I think both of us would agree don't jump at a conclusion that's based on what you're seeing today, because it may not be so tomorrow, it may not be so next year, right, but I would say that skill, craft is still important, because those things that we throw out, like reading, cursive writing, might still be essential. We might not see how essential their nature is right now, brian, but at some time in the near future we may have to use that. And now we're screwed. You can't just tap a button.

Speaker 1: 1:01:45

Yeah, and this is what I kind of want to get into with how orientation affects us, right, because we now sort of at scale, due to the speed of communication and how it's shared quickly. Scale due to the speed of communication and how it's shared quickly, it it's sort of this, this mass orientation together towards something. Right, it happens sort of at scale, larger. So does that mean those, those changes occur faster because they're they're happening at scale, or is it just that it captures our attention? But because this is the other thing is with attention and orientation, is that it's sort of it. It's weird, right, because I see two sort of opposing things happening, right. So, so everyone talks about oh, people have a short attention span now and everything is these 10 second clips and you got to hook people in right away and and it's the, and you know, these tiktok videos are only a few seconds long. Let's do micro learning and let's do this and let's. It's like okay, but but also also some of the most popular things in the world today are podcasts that are three fucking hours long, or or people, a new series comes out on netflix and they drop the whole series and people binge watch the entire fucking series from start to finish over the course of a weekend. That's a lot of time, that's a lot of attention and that's not fleeting. That's not a 10 second, that's not coming at you at 10 30 second clip. So it's weird. It's like we're seeing both and so it's almost like there's, when these things occur, right, these new forms. Everything's fast and it's got to be quick and hook people, and it's like there's a deeper sort of drive towards this longer form content and a deeper knowledge and understanding and people now going. I mean, look at even the latest presidential election.

Speaker 1: 1:03:28

A lot of people are crediting part of the success of Trump and his team was that him and and and JD Vance were going on these podcasts and they were talking for hours at a time. Because a five minute interview what do you really learn in a five minute interview, unless you're keeping it very specific to one specific policy or one specific stance, like you can only get so much. But over an hour, two hours, three hours well, now you get a better understanding of that person and how they think and the way they look at things, and so that was really, really. That's something that's new, right, we haven't had the ability to do that. But if you go back you can go back to FDR's fireside chats every week that he was putting out for the nation and talking and communicating constantly. So it's like there's these two sort of diametrically opposed forms that are out there. So that's the part that's interesting to me. When people make these grandiose claims or they say this is where things are heading, we don't know what's going to be important in five years.

Speaker 2: 1:04:34

We just don't. We don't know what's going to be important in five months.

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

And I'll agree with that. I will tell you this, brian you have a very sound argument, really thought provoking, and that's what you intended to be. Provocative, and I agree. I would say this what is behind the theory of academics, what's behind the theory of higher education? It's to take us and expose us to things that aren't fun calculus geometry because we may have to use those to understand spatially our role in the rest of the world.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

So the idea is that this nuanced stuff that's coming at us and it's fast and all you know, for example, most people, you know, let's say, most people are just reading the headlights rather than reading the content. Well then, they're going to end up searching for those things that align with their views, which means that they're absenting. Look, some of the best decisions you'll make in your life are after making a bad decision. You learn from those things. So the idea is well, that's why it's out there, though right. So if God and Buddha, vishnu and Allah knew enough to give us lessons and that's what the Bible is, that's what the Talmud is, that's exactly what the Quran is is a series of lessons then maybe those are important, brian. Maybe that form of long-form storytelling is important, and what I would say is let's not drown that baby or throw that baby out with the bath, depending on where you are in the world at this time. Let's make sure that we give it the time that it takes.

Speaker 2: 1:06:01

And when somebody asks what that time is, you know what I say probably a million point, three years. Am I saying that it's not going to make an impact today or tomorrow? No, it's like Bitcoin Nobody still understands that or frangible tokens or any of the other fungible, rather tokens. But the idea is that they've already made an impact societally. But is that going to be a long-term, lingering impact, or is it going to be that flash in the pan? You know the term flash in the pan? Two things from gold mining and also from putting gunpowder and making light while you're taking the old de Guere-type photos. That term is still around, while neither of those other things is still around. So we just don't know, brian. We don't know, and that's why you and I rely on stuff like science and physics that's much more rigid and has stood the test of time. When we fully understand that math has limits and we understand that things like physics change, and when they change and everybody acknowledges the change, I'll be the scientist and step up, and I'll change my views too.

Speaker 1: 1:07:00

Yeah, and this is also. You know, when it gets into, you know everyone's talking about AI this and AI that, and most people aren't even really talking about AI when they say that stuff or they're using it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:13

It's a theory of AI, right, right, right, what they think AI is.

Speaker 1: 1:07:18

Well, you know, you look at these different tools and things and like, you get these large language models and I highly suggest everyone use them and get to understand that chat GPT. So then in those things, because you'll understand the limitations. And it's great for going on LinkedIn after you use that stuff for a while while because you can see how much just made up ai material really is on there and people posting shit and it's like, oh, you just put this fucking prompt into chat gpt and you didn't even bother taking out some of the keywords that it always uses or the formatting. You literally just copied and pasted but that's that. That's. That's a different one.

Speaker 1: 1:07:55

But you know, those tools are very good at at they're very.

Speaker 1: 1:08:01

They have a deep, deep, deep knowledge in one area, whereas humans, you know, we have the ability to reason and we have, like, maybe our level or of understanding isn't deep in a lot of areas, but we have a large amount or a wide amount of things that we can learn and understand and conceptualize. So you're interested in sports, you have your job, you have your hobbies, you have your family, you have your, this, each one, because the more of those things you have and do like the less sort of expertise you could have in all of them. Well, these different tools now, as most technologies are, it's like this deep level of expertise in one thing. So it can't really conceptualize going from that one thing over into another area like we can as humans, because of the whole process we just took an hour to explain, right, because of everything that we just talked about that allows us to go into new, novel circumstances and not go. I don't know, I wasn't programmed for this. It's like, yeah, you were and you can get better at your program.

Speaker 2: 1:09:15

Your entire've been preparing for this, your entire effing life. You just didn't know you were. You just didn't know that that's what your brain is organizing things for is for that unknown.

Speaker 1: 1:09:24

And it's just a very. It's based on primitive rules and if you haven't been taught or learned in some way whether formally or informally been trained in something, it's going to fall back on some basic basic processing and basic basic rules. And so what we want people to do is understand the basic rules right, understand what you can't break, what you can't change, how things are going to be right. So I have a deep foundational knowledge of that and then understand that you have all of these other experiences in life. I don't care if you're eight years old and that's the only experience you have is at your house and in your neighborhood and go to school. You have lessons that you can draw from. You have experiences that you've had that you can then say well, this is kind of cognitively close enough to something I've experienced before.

Speaker 1: 1:10:19

What did I use back at that experience that can help me through this one? What can I do? So if I'm not unpacking those different experiences, meaning if I go back and do that, it makes my, in a sense and not for the scientists listening you don't understand what I'm saying, I'm oversimplifying it, but like it sort of gets me better at that orientation, it gets me better at the recognition. It gets me better at the sense making, gets me better at understanding and problem solving and sort of like, helps and increases my functional field of view in a way. You can't physiologically get it bigger, but you can in a sense of knowing what's important to to identify and what's not. Important is just as good, I mean, even if you just know all right, I don't know everything here, but I know these things don't matter.

Speaker 1: 1:11:09

Well, you've just reduced your cognitive load, you've just you've just made your ability to sense, making that environment that much better, that much faster and that much easier. So so it's it's whether it's learning something new or learning what you don't have to do and what you have to focus on. It's like that's why we talk about focusing on the here's the things that matter, right. Here's the things that we don't know if it matters, but maybe here's interesting, right, right. Oh, this is past interesting. This is now an anomaly. Wait a minute. There's multiple anomalies here. Hang on, I'll stop All stop.

Speaker 1: 1:11:46

What? What Time to orient? Can I, can I grab some time and distance here and figure out the next step and determine likely outcomes based on what I know now? And that all starts with everything we discussed in here today. And then it doesn't just happen at that micro level, me individually making my way through the world. It's at that macro level, then, how we share that information with others, how it gets processed, how we orient as societally right, as a family, as a team.

Speaker 1: 1:12:17

What are we orienting towards? Because that that you actually can. You can put a mark on the wall and you're never, you're never going to be a hundred percent right, but you don't have to be. You just have to be more right than you are wrong, right, and we can say all right, greg, we're going to orient towards this for today or this week, or for the company, or for this strategy. This is how we're going to orient things, and from there your brain can go all right. If I have a general end state in mind, what do I want the outcome of this situation to be? I can orient towards that ideal outcome and then work my way towards it.

Speaker 1: 1:12:53

And I can track my performance with a pen and a yellow pen, and I can track my performance with a pen and a yellow pad and Greg, and then, if the situation is overwhelmingly forcing me in a different direction, well now I know hey, it's not headed towards the most likely outcome, it's heading towards the most dangerous, it's heading somewhere else. So either A I'm missing something. It's part of my intervention strategy, Exactly Right. What am I missing? That's not management.

Speaker 2: 1:13:18

Management is saying well, it's going to happen, it's inevitable and I'm going to deal with it. Mitigation is fixing it, it's changing it In stride and you're exactly right In stride when new and incoming information might not be favorable to the likely outcome. That's it. You hit the nail on the head.

Speaker 1: 1:13:36

So what? All right, one of the things you said.

Speaker 2: 1:13:42

You just framed a great question, so what?

Speaker 1: 1:13:44

Yeah, what's a so what? Right? So what's the so what, greg, of everything we discussed? Okay, so I'll give three. I got three gifts. Okay, I like three, I like the rule of threes, so this is my three Christmas gifts that I'm giving to everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:13:58

Okay, let's talk instinct and intuition for 10 seconds. Instinct everybody has, but it's a prompt, it's just a push. It's hey, it's a whisper. You have to do something with it. So it's just a prompt, it's not going to save you.

Speaker 1: 1:14:15

You have to use it, just a prompt. It's not going to save you, and one of the things they can do with that, greg, is go back to one of our previous episodes called Instinct versus Intuition, so just want to shout that out for us right there.

Speaker 2: 1:14:25

And so intuition is something learned that we develop over time. But don't make the mistake, instinct has to be tuned as well. Okay, that's your first gift. Second gift I got it here somewhere. Yeah, brian said learning something new, and I love it. And what I wrote down learning something old. You want to get better for New Year's.

Speaker 1: 1:14:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:44

Go back and pick a concept and go back and deep dive it and find out how much you were off the mark from the muzzle to the target. Find out what your Kentucky windage took over in your brain and how you're not cognitively close enough anymore. So I would call that learning something old and that'd be a great sound, but I can already see a couple of our friends jumping on that one.

Speaker 1: 1:15:04

So I want an old priest and a young priest. That's what you're saying.

Speaker 2: 1:15:07

Thanks Well that's my last furry convention. In a nutshell, and the final one, brian, is what price virtual reality? You know I constantly bang on virtual reality that's got punching me in the nose right there for being a wise guy, and what I mean by that is what was the idea of virtual reality? What's your idea of virtual reality? If you're talking about costing less money and everybody has availability so I can do unlimited practice on my own to get better, that's my idea of virtual reality. If you're making something that's so finely tuned with fidelity and colors and lights and flash and it's so expensive I got to take out a loan to buy one for my agency and I can still only get one person through at a time that's not virtual reality.

Speaker 2: 1:15:49

It doesn't have to mimic reality identically. What it does is we have mirror neurons for that. What it does is it has to allow me perfect practice, or close to perfect, correctable practice, a number of times for that same low dollar amount. It's got to be cognitively close enough and once it is, I'll learn. So you take the high price one and you take a low price one, and if the low price one gives the same outcomes, brian, I will opt for the low price, one every time. That's my two cents, that's. That's what burns my grinds, my gears. You know what grinds my gears Exactly?

Speaker 1: 1:16:22

Yeah, and the key word there is outcomes. Yep, we are not as humans, sort of we don't fully understand outcomes. We go into this thing, go into, we make decisions based off of, of actions, not outcomes. Right, meaning we look at what actions are happening or what actions I need to take, and maybe that's tied to some intent or some, some motive to you know in a sense, but we don't always take into account outcomes.

Speaker 1: 1:16:57

And this is what I was thinking about after our discussion about the whole luigi mangione uh kid who killed the, the united healthcare ceo and the social. They're just the response to all that, right, societally. And I was like what the fuck is wrong with people? Like okay, because, because, first of all, I get it if you don't care about the guy and you're like whatever, some dude got smoked, I don't fucking know him, okay, that's fine. That's actually kind of a normal way to look at things. Like, in a sense, like hey, this didn't affect me, like, at least I get that at a primitive level, interpreted it and said this is what it is.

Speaker 1: 1:17:44

Because what was the outcome? You got there, all right, you didn't. Do you think you changed something? You think you brought attention to something that people didn't already know about. You think it's going to change, because I'm going to tell you exactly what's going to happen. Is now every healthcare company senior executives? Well, I guess they're going to bump up their security, which means that's going to increase their cost. You think they're going to take that out of their fucking paycheck?

Speaker 2: 1:18:08

No, they're not.

Speaker 1: 1:18:09

They're going to pass it on to the customers, right, but I compare that to the September 11th tax, greg. Well, what were the outcomes of that? Changed the fucking world and and did. Did they achieve what they wanted? They didn't care how many people they killed that day. What did they want to do? They want to drag us into a long, fucking, protracted war and bleed, you know, I mean like they got the outcomes they wanted and and and so. So it's I, and I use these examples because they're relevant and people and people look at them, but I'm like no, no, no, think about that.

Speaker 1: 1:18:40

Your individual things, whether it's training or whether it's a situation, or, and it's like the outcome is the most important part. So you may be working really, really hard on something that's very complicated and tough and and you think you're doing really well, but but you're you're focused on the actions that you're performing, not the actual outcomes. The outcome should define what that action is, what the path it is that you take. It's you start there with what is the best way to do this or what is the outcome that I want, and so if I focus on that one, I get back to your training and investment. Stuff is like I obviously get more bang for my buck that way and it helps me figure out and do the cost benefit analysis of something of an action that I'm going to take, because that's an investment and that's your time and money and that's the biggest thing.

Speaker 1: 1:19:26

None of this is about money or funding, because there's plenty of it out there and when people get on board with something, that shit opens up and all of a sudden there's plenty of money for something and the problem is we spend it all on stuff and not necessarily get a return on that. So it's not about the money, it's about time, and people don't. We human beings are lazy, right? We don't want to take the time to plan this out or think this out or or or recognize the potential spirals of a situation, because that's hard, it's complex, right? We don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:19:56

We don't know everything, right and and and something can come along and change. You know, like you said, we don't know what I said, we don't know what it's going to be in five years. You said no, we don't know where it's gonna be in five months. It's like yeah, fuck, yeah, you're right, because a natural disaster could occur that you know california breaks off and falls into the ocean, which I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't care. But you know I live here so I would but do you see what I'm getting at, though?

Speaker 2: 1:20:26

I do, so let's, let's street it up one final time before the holidays. Brian, you live in California, is that true?

Speaker 1: 1:20:29

Yes, and you understand. Wait are you? Are you deposing me right now? I'm not answering any questions about an attorney present. Hey, you have an attorney coming on Sunday.

Speaker 2: 1:20:40

What an attorney? Do you understand what a riptide is? Yes, a riptide perfectly explains folks. Look it up if you don't know what Brian was talking about. If you're in the water during a riptide and you just go through a lot of flapping your arms and kicking your feet, the outcome is you're still going to die. So there's a couple of simple things that you have to do to fight a riptide, for the outcome, to survive and get back to shore. So all of that motion that you think I'm strong and I'm tough and I'm smart and I'm going to just swim my ass off and I'm likely to get out of this doesn't matter to a riptide. The ript and I'm going to just swim my ass off and I'm likely to get out of this doesn't matter to a Riptide. The Riptide doesn't know you.

Speaker 2: 1:21:22

So that's the problem that we're facing. What problem are you solving? What are you working towards? And all that work you're doing it's noble, but if it's not outcome-based, we have a specific problem with that. We don't have a general problem with that, because generally we think that everybody is noble and is doing the right thing, but we have a specific problem if it doesn't move the dial. If all of the stuff that you're doing doesn't move the dial, I would say reassess your priorities.

Speaker 1: 1:21:47

Yeah, that's a as usual. You're great at streeting it up and giving those sort of examples. I live on the street.

Speaker 2: 1:21:54

Brian, this is all a stage.

Speaker 1: 1:21:56

Literally. That's a stage I'm right now.

Speaker 2: 1:21:58

yeah, it's cold. You can see my breath. If I turn sideways, I'm outside. It's horrible.

Speaker 1: 1:22:03

It's horrible for the holidays, poor Lanny. I'm sitting in Lanny's truck right now recording this oh my God, Getting that free Wi-Fi from the McDonald's across the street.

Speaker 2: 1:22:16

Exactly God, there's money. Neither Brian and I have money, so we would like some. Please send it.

Speaker 1: 1:22:22

So we got into a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:22:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:24

There's any God, even some of the concepts this is the tough part about this is talking about some of these and because they're all complex topics that kind of you know they all interplay with one another. Topics that kind of you know they, they all interplay with one one another. But you, you can't just just learning the under or learning the science behind it, or understanding the complexity of it doesn't always help me, right I want to keep things simple, right, and that's why we said well, what's, what are you trying to achieve here?

Speaker 1: 1:22:52

what's the outcome you want, and are your actions and thoughts and beliefs, are they aligned with that? Because if they're not, then then you're never going to get to that outcome, even with the best intentions in mind, you know. So, yeah, there's a lot in here. So what, what I would love is if, if you're still listening at this point, an hour and 20 minutes in you mean me or do you mean like people listening to us, people, people.

Speaker 2: 1:23:16

That's hilarious, exactly, you know, is you know that's Dave Grossman calling by the way.

Speaker 1: 1:23:20

Oh God, oh geez, don't, don't why you got to, why you got to throw that flashbang into the room. So the you know reach out with questions.

Speaker 2: 1:23:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:23:31

Comments, ask us about it. I know our Patreon folks will always get to you first and we can have a further on discussions on there. But any of these things, you know, I pick it apart. What the hell did you mean by this? Or why are you saying it this way, or what is that? Because that's how we can really parse out some of these details For some of you who are really interested in it. If you're not interested in it, you're not listening at this point, so I don't care. But you know you reach out to us so we can answer those questions and we get on here and talk about that. That's the thing I would ask. And then you know also, you know that you have a have a safe and wonderful Christmas and new year and holidays too, because this could be a contentious time for some people and families and and travel.

Speaker 2: 1:24:15

Brian is talking about himself right now and is definitely coming in.

Speaker 1: 1:24:20

No, I, you know my coping mechanisms are alcohol, so I'm fine, right. I know that. You know I can just have some drinks. My family isn't the one getting up and doing the 5K turkey trot on Thanksgiving. You know, that's not us, that's not how we do things.

Speaker 2: 1:24:39

What Brian is telling you, folks, is he sets his expectations very low. And he always accomplishes them.

Speaker 1: 1:24:45

The only thing I do is I just try to take as much off of my wife's plate as possible, and I try to do as much as I can and let her actually relax for the holidays.

Speaker 1: 1:24:56

I'm literally like I'm cooking every meal. Relax for the holidays. I'm literally like I'm cooking every meal. I'll get this. I'll take my parents around. I'll do that Like you do, you, you do, you boo and you hang out, you watch, your, watch, your, you know real housewives of whatever. Take care of Max, I'll, I'll, I'll take care of this situation and we'll divide and conquer.

Speaker 2: 1:25:13

Thank you, buddy. You're the all time show for that Well it's, it's self-preservation.

Speaker 1: 1:25:17

So all right, well, I appreciate it, greg, you know. Appreciate you giving the explanations and talk about this one. This is the interesting ones for me. I know that that I like getting into, but it doesn't always translate well, sometimes to the, to the audience or to people listening. You know it's always hard to tell you know what part they want to glam onto. So I appreciate you breaking this stuff down the way you did. So any, any, any final words, greg.

Speaker 2: 1:25:43

Yeah, real quick, and you know all the Merry Christmas, happy New Year stuff that Brian said. But the person in your life and that may or may not be you that can collect vital information more quickly is the one that's likely to survive and prosper during a challenging encounter. Replay that a couple of times.

Speaker 1: 1:26:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:26:04

It's all about information, and so orientation is a prompt to gather better information more quickly. That's what this episode's been about.

Speaker 1: 1:26:14

Yeah, great final words. I appreciate it. So, thanks everyone for tuning in, we do appreciate it. If you everyone for tuning in, we do appreciate it. If you joined the episode, please share it. Share it with a friend. You know, give us a thumbs up, give us, give us a review on whatever podcast platform you're listening to, reach out to us, connect, uh, we appreciate it. You know, always hit us up on. Linkedin is actually a good one for that. Besides all the other 95 of the shit that's on there's fucking junk. But well, it's gotten pretty bad lately.

Speaker 2: 1:26:39

I don't feel bad about Grossman now.

Speaker 1: 1:26:41

It's gotten pretty bad recently, but anyway, we thank everyone for tuning in and don't forget that training changes behavior.