The Human Behavior Podcast
Do you ever wonder why people act the way that they do? Join human behavior experts Brian Marren and Greg Williams as they discuss all things human behavior related. Their goal is to increase your Advanced Critical Thinking ability through a better understanding of HBPR&A (Human Behavior Pattern Recognition & Analysis.) What is HBPR&A? It's a scientific (and fun) way to understand and articulate human behavior cues so that you can predict likely outcomes and it works regardless of your race, religion, political ideology or culture!
The Human Behavior Podcast
What's Shaping Your Perceptions?
The sciences behind human behavior are complex, yet the practical applications are what truly matter in our daily lives. In this illuminating discussion, we peel back the layers of scientific theory to reveal how concepts like gestalt psychology, emergence, and reification shape the way we perceive and interact with the world around us.
Our brains are constantly working to create order from chaos, organizing visual information into patterns that make sense to us. This natural tendency explains why eyewitnesses can be utterly convinced of details they never actually saw, or why we might misinterpret objects based on context alone. As Greg describes through compelling real-world examples from combat zones to everyday situations, "The untrained mind believes what it expects, not what it sees."
We explore how these scientific principles translate into practical frameworks like "baseline plus anomaly equals decision" - a formula that allows you to quickly identify threats and opportunities in any environment by understanding what's normal and noticing meaningful departures from that norm. Rather than getting bogged down in academic terminology, we focus on how these concepts can be applied in high-pressure situations where quick, accurate decision-making is essential.
The power of emergence - that "aha moment" when everything suddenly clicks into place - becomes a cornerstone of effective learning and observation. When you experience these moments of clarity on your own rather than being told what to see, the lessons become hardwired into your consciousness, available even under extreme stress. Through storytelling and practical examples, we demonstrate how you can sharpen these skills in your everyday life, from workplace interactions to personal relationships.
Ready to transform how you observe and interpret the world around you? Subscribe to our podcast, check out our Patreon for exclusive content, and remember: training changes behavior.
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. Today, greg and I are exploring some of the deeper scientific principles behind human behavior, pattern recognition and analysis, things like gestalt, psychology, emergence and how our brains fill in the blanks to make sense of the world. Now, don't worry, we're not going to overload you with academic jargon. Instead, we'll show you how these concepts actually work in real life, whether you're on the job or simply navigating daily interactions. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Don't forget to check out our Patreon channel for additional content and subscriber-only episodes. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving us a review and, more importantly, sharing it with a friend. Thank you for your time and remember training changes behavior. All right, greg, we are recording, so we're going to go ahead and jump in. Hey, everyone, we got a good one today. So, greg, today I want to talk about some of the scientific principles behind what we teach, without getting it too sciencey, and the reason being. You know we have our own process and method that we talk about, especially on the podcast and in class. A lot of times we get questions about like well, where are you citing this from? Or where is it, and it's like well, hey, this has been standardized, well-known areas of study for a really long time and we're taking the fundamentals of it and applying it. And even though we stick to the science, we don't always get into every single nuanced area, meaning we don't state it explicitly, they're not always front and center in class or in podcasts. Because why I'm more focused on you utilizing the information correctly in a way that anyone can understand. Right, it's about the outcome and what you're doing with the information, not just being able to recite something. I mean, anyone can go to school or read a book and cite all of this different stuff or talk about these different theories, and that's just absolutely not helpful in the application of it Like we know it or we have to understand it because we're teaching it in our way, so we know where it comes from. But that's not the important part of what we get into and that's why we do a lot of the storytelling, because that's obviously easier to learn and remember. It's the oldest way to learn, but they're not always sort of front and center. And then what I see a lot is then now, especially on social media LinkedIn and Instagram and all this stuff is like people talking about these different scientific principles and it's like, okay, great, like you read a book and you studied this, that's awesome. But so what? And it's everything from. You know whatever, some psychological theory. Psychology is the one that's the worst, because it's all pop psychology and some new thing comes along and everyone gets excited. And then a few years later people are like, oh well, you know, maybe that didn't really work out so well, and it's like, yeah, these are just ways that people came up with to explain something that they found interesting. And since you related to it, you also found it interesting.
Speaker 1:And now we're going to use this. It's like well, hang on, that's one thing that you're looking at. Let's look at the big picture, the sum of all the parts, but we have to start with the little things in there, I guess. To start with the little things in there, I guess. So, just to kind of, you know, kind of, I wanted to frame it, at least the discussion, in that, because we are going to be talking a little bit about emergence, gestalt psychology and some of the theories behind it, because you know which is a wide area of study, which number of people fall under and how we explain these things. But it's all about perception and processing. So we're going to talk about it without even getting into the eye and the brain. I mean, we are talking about the eye and the brain, but we're talking about the process on which we perceive things. So you know, first of all, why scientific principles matter but aren't always front and center in class or podcasts. Why is that from your perspective, greg?
Speaker 2:No, so you brought up a bunch of great things. So to street it up, Brian is saying that when we go to the range to qualify instructor first, doesn't ask us to lands in the grooves on the weapon we're about to fight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the model velocity that?
Speaker 2:doesn't have anything to do with what we're about to do. So in class we move it at fast pace. We assume that you're going to understand some of these principles and when you don't, there's a lot of source documentation that's out there. So we rely on science, because science relies on evidence. We rely on science because it provides a systematic, reliable method for understanding the world, for solving problems and for making better informed decisions, especially in extremis. So science leads to everything. Science leads to advancements in technology and medicine, overall quality of life. So why wouldn't we lead? That's our heavy hitter when we go in. But we don't have to dig so deep, brian, that everybody has like reintegration. You know, holy crap, there's a topic, or or even when we go into heuristics.
Speaker 1:Brian, you could spend the rest of your life studying heuristics and not play grasp, and that's why we use it. We look at sort of HBPRA and what we do as a living system, rather than these bullet point theories where it's like, okay, this comes from here, it's like, well, but it also comes from over here. And then people are like, well, that's confusing. Which one I was like it's all of it, like it's these things are complex, interactions, interactions and what a lot of these different theories or procedures are. It's like everyone stops, takes a snapshot in time and looks at this right here and goes, see, I'm going to explain everything through that lens and I go, yeah, but the second the situation changes, that's no longer relevant. So so you can't just rely on one thing. So what do we mean when we say like hbprna is like a living system rather than just a list of bullet pointed theories?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know the funny thing you just said again. So every time that you see a book that Brian or I own it's dog-eared and it's got highlights and it's got sections with arrows, that's only confirmation bias internally, we're reading things and going, yeah, well, that makes sense because of what we know. I don't take then a picture of that and send it to Sean and go did you know this? Because Sean is going to send back. Yeah, because it's science. So it's just a funny side note there.
Speaker 2:So look, if you're thinking of HPPRA as a structure. Think of it as a structure like the US Constitution, another living system. Okay, so that's an absolutely accurate way, brian that you just brought up, of looking at, because science never changes, but the system is, and was designed to be, adaptable and evolve over time. And what does that mean? That means that it can allow for changes based on the application, but it can meet the needs of a changing society. It's not Iraq anymore and it's not Afghanistan anymore.
Speaker 2:So, as much as those stories to me are vital for me to remember a principle and pay it forward, that might not be important to you and you make those connections with people all the time through your stories, but you said it best one time. As a matter of fact, you said an hour ago on a different business call that look, one day you were speaking to a church group that afternoon, to students in elementary, elementary school, and later that evening the navy seals. You didn't change the thing about the science. You might have changed your delivery methodology. You might have had a touch me here, elmo or whatever, to hold up to entertain I don't think that's what that's called.
Speaker 1:The seals, yeah, but that was for the seals, yeah right, but?
Speaker 2:but the idea is, at the end of the day, brian the, the principles, the psychological, sociological, physiological underpinnings have never changed.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's jump into some of the ones that we're going to talk about today, and the big one being kind of this gestalt psychology, and so I'll let you sort of define it. But it's kind of like I mentioned, it's where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, meaning there's a few things involved with it. I don't have to see everything to know what it is that I'm seeing, but also my brain is searching for an end state to what I'm seeing, and it will guide it in that direction, based on what I know and everything and what I, what I, what I've learned throughout life, even sort of if it's wrong, or even if it's not there, right, and so that's the overarching thing. But I'll I'll let you kind of jump into that and explain the Gestalt psychology and why it's so powerful.
Speaker 2:And you just again nailed it right on the head, brian and I refer to Gestalt psychology. There's a Gestalt theory that's very deep and goes on and it's like the second law of thermodynamics.
Speaker 2:It goes on forever. Okay, but in psychology, Gestalt psychology explains why we tend to see the world through organized patterns. What happens is interrelated events and structures may not be, but our brain organizes them. Why? Because our brain is constantly trying to make order out of chaos. So in German, Gestalt literally means form or shape, and it helps us because what we do is our visual information says okay, these are patterns, these shapes fit together, and even if the final outcome is wrong, our brain will go there. So it's designed to be helpful.
Speaker 2:But this is where eyewitnesses can be wrong. This is why visual evidence can deceive us, and your comment that the whole is merely the sum of its parts is more important. That's so important to understand from the concept of theory of close enough. What happens is I had to invent something to name what I was seeing happen on the stance. Cops would testify and then all of a sudden, a witness would testify and then you'd have another witness testify and it didn't even sound like the people were at the same story. So then the defense attorney would jump in and go there's a bunch of scrum there. This obviously means that they're lying and I would go. No, it's a theory close enough.
Speaker 2:Your brain tends to group things together, whether they fit together or not. So the other problem is that you anticipate certain things being an environment, so the thing you saw fits that pattern. So therefore you have to deconstruct your memory. You have to deconstruct what you saw to make sure you're actually seeing what you thought, Because they didn't conduct a detailed investigation, they merely grouped things together under stress and the untrained mind believes what it thinks. It believes what it expects, not what it sees.
Speaker 1:And I'll give sort of one example and then you give another one that we've used before in the past, but you just brought it up as perfect as as eyewitness testimony. Everyone was like I wouldn't, his testimony is terrible. And people are like, well, no, I know what I saw. It's like you, you really don't. And there was a great one where they had someone who claimed that they went through it, blew the red light and t-bone that other car and then the camera footage revealed that the person heard the crash, turned and looked and saw the, that it was red where the person should have stopped.
Speaker 1:And their brain created that entire story, which was the actual story. It was what actually happened, but they didn't actually see the events take place. But they didn't know that they. They literally said, well, yeah, I, I did. Brain went oh, wow, I just watched this truck run into it. It's like, even though you were like a quarter or half a second behind, you just heard the noise and then oriented in that direction and your brain said, okay, I know what happened here. Now it was absolutely correct. But they didn't actually see the accident. You know, I mean that's how powerful this stuff is, because we have to make that order out of chaos. So I know you've got some, you know noticing those.
Speaker 2:The early days of Combat Hunter was me bouncing around, you know, wearing my shitty Walmart jacket and my untucked pants, and I was probably hitting you up before a pre-deployment somewhere at some base on one of the coasts that was just the norm, base on one of the coasts, that was just the norm. Or in country, in a Connex, wearing an amazingly large one-piece fire-retardant marine bodysuit in tan color. That did not look very good on me at all. And what happened is I would show pictures that I took. You know that I take a lot of pictures and tell a lot of stories.
Speaker 2:So I would show a picture of a hairdryer the same exact hairdryer in every photo, but the first hairdryer would be on the counter in the bathroom of a hotel. Everybody knows the blue Formica counter mirror in the background and everybody immediately could associate that. Well now, have that in your mind right now and set it to your left. Well then, the next photo that I would take is a photo of the same exact hairdryer, but it's partially revealed under the passenger side of the car seat. Now, the people that I showed that to, on the right-hand side, where it's partially concealed by the car seat, all said gun and everybody that saw the hotel bathroom all said guess what? Hair dryer. Okay, now let's take that further and take the hair dryer photo from the left and instead of on the right having a gun, what we did is we put it in a wood shop up there with some clamps and saw and some different things. And guess what?
Speaker 1:they said, they said drill.
Speaker 2:So the idea is that priming is so strong in your brain and guess what? The theory of close enough comes up, and so you have Gestalt literally says we can't be comfortable with a missing piece of the puzzle. So I have to make sense of what I'm seeing in this situation. So my brain helps, but what we're saying from the very basic of this conversation is sometimes that brain is unhelpful because the information it provides you get fixated on it might not be the truth, brian. That's the key.
Speaker 1:Well, and you brought up is, which is why we always talk about when we get into, like baseline plus anomaly decision. It's like that context, context, that baseline is the most important part to fully understand because that shapes every single perception you have. And you just gave two perfect, perfect examples, like the, you know, okay, here on a, you know, I remember, like the slightly blurry photos just blur it out a little bit right it's like, okay, that's a hair dryer at a hotel, okay, that's a drill on a workbench, like, oh wait, that's like a little submachine, a little Uzi or something like that. And this, when I put it next to other weapons and it's like but to your brain it just it says what should fit here.
Speaker 1:Okay this is cognitively close enough, and that's why we use the theory of close enough, which is why it's so important about understanding that context and where you're starting that from. And this is again. We've never really talked about this one a lot. You know the gestalt, but this is where a lot of this stuff comes from, and it's a complex interaction between your eye and your brain, your visual cortex, your memory, the context, the environmental indicators and cues that you're getting, your mood that day, how nervous or scared you are, how happy or excited you are. I mean, there's so much. Your emotional state really plays into it as well, and so that kind of like. You know, we, we show people how to do that and how to recognize patterns quickly and and then act on them sooner so I can say, oh, wait a minute, that is the gunner. You know, don't worry about it, that's just a drill. Now. That that's just that example.
Speaker 1:But there is this concept within sort of gestalt theory about, about emergence, and so you know this emergence and behavior is, is I would sort of call it like that when, when that clicks, when that oh my god, I know what that is. It's the oh, it's a piece of candy kind of thing, almost, but it's like this is where that comes from. So, so, you know, can you sort of to illustrate emergence, right? This is where all of those things from the environment come together, right, and we get that click, that aha. So when it manifests, it's that's when we talk about recognizing that threat or opportunity before you know it's aware, either before that person's aware of it, before someone else's, or earlier on in the sequence of events that I find myself in, those aha moments, those clicks. I mean that that's that's where it's at.
Speaker 1:So, like, how do we? I guess I kind of I kind of spoiled a little bit like, well, how do we talk about that? Just because I'm so I'm so used to it? Like, how do we talk about that Just because I'm so used to it? How do we talk about that in the classroom? Because I can sit here and like, oh, wow, you want me to learn about emergence and call that emergence. It's like that's great if you want to go read a book about it, but then how do I use that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So let's play a game first. So let's deconstruct it first and talk about two things. Let's say that you've never been a copper before. What I want you to do is go in your kitchen right now, bring your trash can out of the kitchen and dump it on your floor. And you're going to go through that and I want you to put things together in your brain until you decide what was for breakfast. And has the person a cold? What emergency thing did they have to do to sew on a button? It's all there, it's all in that trash can. Now, cops, you'll have a chance to go out and do a trash pull and do the same thing. Make sure you've got your gloves on and you lay out something so you're not tampering with the evidence and pour it onto that tarp. Okay, so now you have in your mind everybody that's listening to my voice. You've got on the left side you've got that trash bowl, and on the right side you've got the trash can. So what?
Speaker 2:So Brian's example a piece of candy from Family Guy Peter Griffin's trapping James Woods in that old deadfall trap with the stick and the string, and he's got the box weighted, you know. And then he uses Reese's Pieces and as James Woods go by the alley, he goes ooh a piece of candy and he follows that candy right in. What happens is the joke there is that he doesn't see the forest or the trees, he doesn't see the deadfall trap and James Woods gets under it. So if we go back in all of the elemental sciences of psychology and we look at giants like Kafka and Metzger from the 30s, we see that they understood that people didn't understand the aha moment, the, the, the, the linchpin was that emergence hits people at a different time and and they referred to it back then as the laws of seeing. So so now we call it the, the fog of war. Right, and there's a million terms.
Speaker 1:That came out of it right.
Speaker 2:But what's the idea and I love that laws of seeing thing. So visual perception is defined by the emergent properties of the whole. So the pieces of candy which we have to gather then have to be put together, spun around and taken apart, and until we put them together again, we don't understand exactly what we're seeing. So that's the gift of time and distance. That's on one hand. On the other hand, is our initial perception battlefield inertia that makes us form a decision quickly, and that that seat hip is the theory of close enough. So they're in a constant battle together. The whole cannot be predicted from the sum of its parts. They can't.
Speaker 2:The idea is that if we set things together, that could mean any number of things. So there's gotta be the, the gladwellian tipping point where enough things would suggest it's one and not the other. So there's enough puzzle pieces to come together and go. Holy shit, the Eiffel Tower is just in the background. They're trying to show me these two cats with the ball of yarn. And that's emergence. That's when the brain finally goes oh, I see now, and it can grasp the entirety of the situation.
Speaker 1:You're in and from a learning, from a teaching and training standpoint, that's an extremely powerful concept to understand, because now, what you do well, that's the whole thing. If you lay it all out and then go, brian, this is leading to the deadfall trap. I go oh, okay, yeah, I got it. But that's not as powerful as me getting to that aha moment on my own, and some people may need a little bit longer than others. But if you create that sort of you know hook, I mean this is even like you know, those suspenseful movies, or even sometimes with comedy, with that too, it's right. It's going like, where's this going? I think I know where this is going. Oh, I get it now.
Speaker 1:I see, that was the guy the whole time. He was the insider threat. I had that insight, I put it together. So now I'm hooked in and entertained, but from a learning, you know and training standpoint, like that's so powerful. Because if I just lay out the breadcrumbs, if I lay out the pieces, and then you come to the aha moment on yourself by yourself, well, guess what? That lesson is sticking with you?
Speaker 1:that's not just me saying some information, you writing it down and trying to memorize it. That's in there, man, that's, that's hardwired. Now, in a sense, your brain goes god, I love that. And and and. Part of the part of the problem is kind of what you mentioned. It's hard to see what it is as you're putting things together right, so you have to be able to to it. It would be like almost you know, puzzles would never work if they didn't show you the finished product on the front of the box. If you just dumped out pieces that put something together, you'd be like I have no idea. All right, I can get the, I can find the four corner pieces, but then how long is it going to take me to fight every you know to try and fit those pieces together, and how many times do they put the wrong one together?
Speaker 2:Right, you will be able to do it, but think of the discovery learning that you'll be going through. You're exactly right.
Speaker 1:It would take forever.
Speaker 2:You're going to be sitting on your knees and it's going to take way longer than looking at it and sensing the themes. So that's why the brain gave us something. Gestalt named it, but you know that didn't never happen. What happened is that somebody goes. Why is this so? Why did I come up with the term, the theory of close enough? Because I had to talk a defense attorney off the wall and explain to them, and then the jury goes hey, that makes sense. And now you're winning the case. So here what we have is deep scientific principles that have been around forever and people are still conducting studies on, and what we do is we street them so you can use them, we give them to you, so you go. Oh, I got it, because you know what the other danger is, brian, that if I show that variously and in pieces, that you're going to watch the family guy episode and you're only going to come up with, well, there's some relationship between peter James Woods and candy, okay, well, that's too perfunctory.
Speaker 1:There's nothing there.
Speaker 2:And then you're going to say, well, this is about Skittles. Well, no, and it has nothing to do with James Woods' love of candy. The idea is that that's where we're going right and it's spending a lot of time, like you, with the upside down puzzle pieces. You know, with only the cardboard side. What we're doing is the brain has to survive in a complex environment, so Gestalt naturally wants us to tendency to put things together, but we also have to understand with that comes danger. So, as long as we understand the balance on it, most instructors I run into go hey, I love listening to your podcast, but some things I don't understand Exactly, exactly, and so so you know what brian and I don't either, and that's why we're still doing this and that's why we're on the call.
Speaker 1:Talking about it right now is so you truly can grasp these deep concepts yeah, no, and, and you know, that was the skittle one got me to in the, the simpsons episode, where he goes, hey, walks into the quickie mart, hey, you got any of that skittle. Brow, I don't know what you're talking about. He's like we don't have that. He's like, oh well, just give me a six pack of Duff and a package of Skittles. What was he doing?
Speaker 2:So actually what was happening there is? He was not only involved in Gestalt, but he also got to the point where he was reified. So reification comes where a past memory is so strong.
Speaker 1:So Homer drank Skittle Brow past memory is so strong.
Speaker 2:So. So homer drank skittle brow, okay, but, but he ate it. But he forgot that you couldn't just go to a store and buy a skittle brow. I love that. So there's so much science.
Speaker 1:The two, the two tv shows that you and I watch yeah that have the most science in them are family guy and simpsons by far yeah, well, you and you, you brought up sort of the kind of the next part, the reification, the filling in the gaps, right, our tendency to see more detail or completeness in an image or concept that is literally present, right. So, you know, reification kind of is that part that helps you fill in the blanks, right, as you watch behaviors, interpret environment and anticipate actions. As you watch behaviors, interpret environment and anticipate actions. But, like we, this is where you get into practicing, you know, understanding in the distinguishment between real patterns from assumptions or biases, so you don't wrongly fill in missing info. So so, again, and for people listening to us know, like, a bias isn't a bad thing, it just it's, it's, it's not what, what is meant by that term bias. It's just it's, it's, it's not what, what is meant by that term bias?
Speaker 1:It's been using, correctly, a lot. You know really really subject matter experts and people are really good at what they do create and inform these really great bias that allow them to make quick, fast, you know, intuitive decisions. However, right, we can still fall into that trap as, oh, I've seen this before. I know where this goes and it could be wrong. So we have to balance it out, but that's actually kind of part of reification. So maybe you could kind of explain that concept for everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So let's take a history lesson again, because I love historical perspective. So when I got into these ethos arguments on the stand or working with attorneys and they never really understood like they'd be great at the law but they never had a street application. Or you and they never really understood like they'd be great at the law but they never had a street application. Or you'd be great on the street but you didn't understand. There's not a law for that. It doesn't work that way. And so there was turbidity. So this turmoil.
Speaker 2:I try to end by saying hey, look, your confirmation bias is that you'll tend to go out there and look for evidence that supports your theory. It's not science. What you have to do is go where the science takes you. So remember that garbage that we dumped out. Take a look at that garbage and don't read into it. Tell me what it shows.
Speaker 2:So if it shows mostly peels from carrots and a bandaid, then guess what? Maybe you cut your finger preparing a salad. Okay, that's not to say that that. Hey, you had a blood test earlier in the day and came back to get vitamins. What we're doing is we're creating that reality. So reification is the earliest example of a psychological explanation for what confirmation bias does Not what it is, but what it does. And so we define these abstract concepts, one said, concepts that leave us with a missing piece. By filling in those blanks unconsciously, the brain hates chaos again, so it hates a puzzle with missing pieces. So what does it do? It forms something that's close enough, and even if it has to push a little bit, it'll push that in.
Speaker 2:And that's why we say stuff like don't put a round peg in a square hole, because when you're faced with that conundrum, when you're faced with that mystery, your brain is going to fill in that missing information with things that you've experienced, or things that you think, or things that you know, or what you anticipated. You primed yourself to believe it was going to be there. I expect this at a crime scene. So I'm going to add it, Brian, and guess what? Those facets of emergence can be harmful or dangerous. The two things that we hold very, very important to us when we come to your zone and give you training is the Hoberman sphere thinking of a thing in 360 before you get there and the jack-in-the-box. Nobody wants a surprise. You get there and the, the, the jack-in-the-box nobody wants a surprise. So we'll tend, as humans, to fill in missing bits of information, even if it's patently and blatantly wrong yeah, and that's a there's.
Speaker 1:There's just questions. I mean, that's like where, like kind of, if then statements come from right, if I see this, then what else should I expect to see what's likely, what's the most dangerous? Right, and we, we use degrees of likelihood because, like you just said, with the carrot example, right, there's peeled carrots or the carrot peels, and then there's a bloody Band-Aid in there. It's like, okay, well, that makes more sense. Just going off of just what I see right there, it's likely that, okay, did they cut themselves while they were peeling carrots? Versus what you said, oh, they went out and got blood drawn today and that's the bandaid from. It's like, well, you see no other evidence. I'm not saying that didn't happen. I'm saying, based on what we know, what can we, what can we, you know, likely, assume what's was where? Where are we at?
Speaker 2:here, and so logic and and and reality, and and tendency, and all of these agencies that are in our brain already. That's why the one, one of the other things that Brian and I bring to class all the time is the funnel. Listen, look at that funnel for a minute. What's much more likely than these? And, and I remember those two young Marines on the East coast that day said, well, anything can happen. And, brian, we're the, we're the staunchest people, people. And no, not anything can happen. That's not the way life works yeah, certain things happen.
Speaker 2:It's not true more likely to happen.
Speaker 1:So let's stick with science and likelihood and we'll come to better decisions faster okay, so one of the you know and part of the reason why we talk about the stuff on this podcast, because because you can listen to it and you can find out some of the background information on some of the things we discuss and where it comes from and and how to use it.
Speaker 1:but you know, kind of want to talk specifically on why we don't, you know, memorize theory in class now, why we're not like, hey, write down gestalt and remember that. Hey, write down emergence, write down reification, like no, like the, where we can hit on that without getting it. And so the idea. Idea is about with HBPR-8, the design is about it's practical sense-making, under pressure, especially, or usually. Even if it's not, it doesn't matter, it still works right. We don't drill down to the academic language of this. We have our own lexicon to use to articulate things, but I don't need to remember all that. Right, we can go into them without calling them by name, because it's important for me to understand the concept and how to apply.
Speaker 1:It is more important than what it's called, and I almost do the analogy, especially for our law enforcement listeners. You don't have to memorize every single case that you're going to use for case law and precedent. As long as you're acting within the letter of the law, within the intent of the law, you don't have to go. Well, I know that that's Graham v Conner, I know that that's Mims. I don't have to remember that, as long as I'm doing what those cases allow me to do, what the legal precedent is, if I'm staying within that, that's far more important than being able to, you know, remember what you know.
Speaker 1:You brought up the range example in the beginning with, like, how many feet per second, my, my weapon system is like well, okay, I don't know what that round is traveling at, it's fast, it's faster than I can move and it's going to kill me if it hits me. Like I don't need to know the specifics right In order to use that effectively. So it's the most effective use. And that's also where I see some things kind of kind of go wrong. Does that make sense? So you have your own way of saying it. It makes too much sense so.
Speaker 2:So what's more important at that point, at that time? On the range, do you need all those things? Do you understand nomenclature and terminal velocity and all those things? Yeah, you need that. Okay, but if I'm going to be in a firefight, I don't need that right now. Okay, there's certain things that are survival-based, split second choices that impact my survival that I need first, and so those things that I need first are the things that we like to train your brain on.
Speaker 2:So the idea is that the examples that you give are consistently great examples, but I would tell everybody that's listening to us how many times have you heard my voice say do your homework. And what I mean by do your homework is look at your situation, examine your baseline. I don't know where you work, I don't know the people you work with, but you do so to make the best decision. If you do your homework, you don't. For example, roygbiv, it helps us red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet but you know what God, buddha, vishnu Allah, gave us a better thing gave us a rainbow. We look up at the rainbow and we go wow, that's interesting. And then, when we look at a prism, we make a comparative analysis and go. Did you notice that those colors were in that same order? And then guess what, brian, that's called learning. Now I've learned something?
Speaker 1:Pink Floyd invented that right With their album cover. It was Dr.
Speaker 2:Floyd. So I'm more a street magician than I am a scientist or a doctor. But what I do understand is how to take these concepts and make them more digestible. So if we listed out all the scientific principles that we cover in class, you might never come. You might not understand that this higher learning has involved both Brian and I's entire lives and we're still learning every day. Now we're really, really good at it. That's why we're noticed and notified and regarded as the subject matter experts in this field. But I just read something the other day on LinkedIn. We joke about LinkedIn but we love it. Don't get me wrong. Linkedin is a perfect way to get your ideas out there and to get work and to find similar work. But I read a guy that put on there. Now go by my Roy G Biv example. He goes well. The first thing I learned is bivouac to the Rockies mate and I'm paraphrasing because I don't want to call my dear friend out.
Speaker 2:But then he took each letter of you know bivouac to the Rockies mate, and each one meant a thing that he had to have in his rucksack. Holy shit, do you get what I'm saying? If it's past three, you're walking on thin ice. And why does stuff like holmes, huron, ontario, michigan, name the great lakes? Why do they work? Why does roigy work? Because you just have to jam it in your head over and over and over. Well, that's not a recallable memory that you want, because it's no fun anymore and it's for one thing, it's for only the great lakes. What you want to do is you want to have a whole bunch of memories that you can put together and pay it forward. So it's not a closed set. Shooting, driving, self-defense, they're all closed set. The Great Lakes it's a closed set. There's an end to the number of Great Lakes Colors in the spectrum. Well, we now understand that there's many more colors we'll never see. But guess what they all come from? Roy G Biv. Every single one of them has an origin story. That's there.
Speaker 2:So, under stress, your brain and body are going to react the way that you're programmed or the way that you're trained. What do I mean programmed? You're hardwired when you come out of the chute with certain things. Some people got them, some people don't. Well, there's always that third choice. If you're not programmed that way and you haven't been trained that way, then there's the crapshoot. And that means that third choice is that you chose poorly and you're going to die and people are going to go. Well, that's a fatalistic view. No, what I'm saying is that no training in the world can overcome split second stupidity that interrupts a major component of your survival. If you lose your ability to respirate, you are going to die. If your heart is pierced by a piece of shrapnel, you are going to die. You know, there's certain inevitabilities and, brian, we call those evolution.
Speaker 2:So we're saying, if you understand a couple of these principles that God, buddha, vishnu Allah and science combined for us anyway, and you understand to play within them much the same as you would on a, I would say, game with the paddles where the ball goes up and lights up the shit, if you do it on that at the pinball game, that you'll generally be right more than you're wrong playing within the left and right lane markers and you're limited of advance. So understanding science is more important than being able to recite the scientific principle and, by the way, brian made a great precedent right there because the US Supreme Court has said even if you name the wrong court case, as long as the elements of the case that you were acting under were right, then they'll accept it. It doesn't have. You don't have to remember Graham versus Conner, as long as you were going with the spirit of it.
Speaker 2:So that's a great comment, and science is exactly the same way. Science is very forgiving. You might not know what that's called, but that you know. Pythagorean theorem is still going to work.
Speaker 1:And your, your analogy of the, you know the, the visible light spectrum, right, roy J Biv is a great one, because, you know, at a certain point in the history of of of the world, that's all we thought existed. We only thought there was red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet. Well, it turns out, and we found out later on well, there's something called infrared that we can't see, but we can if I have right, right, if I have the right tool, and there's something actually called ultraviolet, and you know what you know then. Then there's other parts out there too that we can see or we can't see, but we know exist. And then you know, light itself is actually, you know, it acts as, like a wave and a particle, and then it's so. So, as things develop, there's more and more.
Speaker 2:But here's the but my point is too it's all in this, not in the class, because we don't have time in the class to go through every one of those things, so we had to put it somewhere.
Speaker 1:But my point of that, though, is what still stands and that I can see every day. Well, roygbiv and that stood the test of time, and maybe we'll find out that light doesn't act that way when we get a different type of a sensor for it, so it's reinforcing. What I mean by this is that when we slam onto these different things that pop up, it's going to continue to evolve. So we're working with what we know today. Might there be something better out there. Sure, maybe 10, 20, 50,000 years from now. I don't, I don't. I don't know, and neither do you. You know what I'm saying. It's like we don't know where that's going to go.
Speaker 2:The great thing about science is, it's science will adapt to it. Like, like Brian, one of the things. Let's go back to what our friends teach all the time. They teach shooting, and now it's whatever type of site that guns have where-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Red Dot site, it's a that's it and and their whole agencies are going to that and everything else. So really good with my iron sights. So I stick with what I know and I hate change because I'm a human. Do you get what I'm trying to say now? Does that mean that I can't spar with you? Does that mean I can't have these discussions with you or work the road or defend my family? No, because I can take a long time to glam onto that. As long as I understand the science behind it. And as long as I understand the science behind it and that's the key I don't have to make some paradigm shifting, life altering change. As long as I understand that gravity exists and that gravity will pull Centrifugal force, and centrifugal force are important to me and you know those type of things are much. And guess what? Before Roy G Biv? That Oogluck and Mukhtar were staring at the sun, brian, and they knew there was something there.
Speaker 2:They just didn't know how to name it. They knew there was something there. Yeah, yeah, always been there it's always been there.
Speaker 1:Just someone is is with everything we're talking about, and then someone comes along and says, well, I'm going to name it this, and then if it's good enough and it's and and and enough people adopt it, it sticks around. And then someone else comes in and goes well, it's more like this, and then maybe that theory sticks around for a couple years and they go back. It was back even when I was doing different, different work, academic work, and I was like, well, you know, I was using, you know, york stodson from a hundred and something years ago. And they're like well, you know, you should really be using kind of newer stuff. And I was like, but why this? These guys nailed it 100 years ago, just as relevant today as it is. It's like, well, yeah, but there's better. I was like, but is there? Because this is the, this is, this is where it comes from. So the then how?
Speaker 1:I sort of ask you, but when we oversimplify it, it's not oversimplified, it's actually very complex, but it's seemingly oversimplified or people don't understand the significance of it. When we we use practical frameworks, right, we talk about things that are incongruent or anomalies, but but coming down to like when we say hey, baseline plus anomaly equals decision, and people go oh, okay, got it. It's like but do you though? Because this is where everything lies at, and so you know what I mean. It's. It's almost like no, no, but no. So what does like gestalt and emergence and reification, like, what does that have to do with baseline plus anomaly equals decision?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the idea is that stories are the best teaching tool. So let me give you an example and then you deduce from that or induce what you need. So, iraq, kinetic Iraq, during the time I was hired to make our soldiers safer Air Force soldiers, marines safer in that environment, because they were getting killed by two things, and the two things that were the number one things on their list were snipers at that time and IEDs, you know, homemade devices with things that would blow up. So first, to find the type of people bombs, yeah, people said, well, we need this surveillance technology and we need that. And this is before I even knew what a G-Boss was and stuff. And so what we did to find the perpetrators in a certain area is we hosted a Christmas in July. Now in Detroit, we do that by parking a truck and in the back of the truck.
Speaker 1:We have a TV box. You're explaining a Christmas in July, yeah, Let me explain it very briefly.
Speaker 2:So you see this truck that's broken down on the side of the road and inside the back of the truck, where I'm sitting in the shade trying to call the wrecker, you see the boxes for the plasma TV and for the this and that and the other. The boxes are all empty. There's a couple of rocks in them to give them some weight. And what I do is I stay on the phone and I walk away from the truck like I'm going to the local gas station, and I leave the truck. Now, brian, what's happening? There is, I've created opportunity, and now a normal person would go hey, I'll keep an eye on this truck and if anybody messes with it I'll call 911. But those criminal elements in our society will look and go whoo-hoo, piece of candy, free TV. So what happens is when they jump in the back of that semi to go and grab that box, the semi back opens up to a hidden compartment and there's a bunch of cops and they go, yahtzee, and now that becomes a Christmas in July. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. So all I did is take that self-same thing that we had done on Detroit streets many, many years and say, okay, who's got a shoe box? We took the shoe box, a toilet paper roll on the end of the shoe box and then a shoelace hanging from the back of the shoe box, and we made a security camera. Understanding the theory of close enough, reification and gestalt allowed me to duct tape that to a pole and have people come by and try to destroy it, thinking it was a surveillance camera. It wasn't. It wasn't even close to that, but it was close enough so you can use Harry Potter's magic wand for good or evil, it's up to you. Same thing spilling into a place that looked like a butcher shop because it had a drain in the floor and it was covered with blood, but then trying to figure out why are they keeping all these VHS tapes and why is there a tripod there and all the other things, and figuring out. That's where they were doing. The brothers, al and Joe Kida, were doing all their beheading videos. Okay, brian, it took me time to read. I had to conduct a reification and a redenigration in my brain to figure out why would these things be here? Well, before, I watched the VHS tape and now I was able to come back, fly back before my next deployment and teach Marines about that. Hey, if it looks like this, guess what? Jack in the box moment do the Hoberman 360.
Speaker 2:Afghanistan we're sitting at an ECP and watching all day long on binos and all I'm seeing is these pink prayer clocks coming across from Pakistan and Afghanistan. And so finally I go, I can't be on a Bonos anymore. So I walked down and I grabbed one of the prayer clocks and you know what it had? At a 10 foot extension cord on the back of it, brian, and I look and I go okay, they must not have a lot of power or they must have to have that prayer clock running outside to the generator. So I asked a couple of people some questions and they go no, just like your house, our clock is close to the outlet.
Speaker 2:And I was thinking why would they have holy smokes they're smuggling in the copper wire so they can use them on the bombs. So, brian, a clever hood, a clever criminal on the street, has to use unconventional means to fool me because I'm on the lookout. So I have to have that trap door in the semi to hide the illegal. I have to have a compartment in my vehicle to hide the cocaine. Well, it's no different.
Speaker 2:So I could go on all day with examples. So those examples were how I learned. So what did I do? I turned them into teachable moments for the Marines by doing two things. One, in class, I would show them those theories by showing them certain videos or photos that I recreated. Then I would take them out behind the place that we're teaching and hide an RPG by just using a couple of simple devices in the backyard and putting it with things that didn't belong with, like with a shovel and a hoe, you get what I'm trying to say. And then put the observer out there holding another shovel, but you know what? Nobody's digging, nobody's's harvesting. And then what would happen is, once your brain came to that epiphany moment and it had the aha, you would never forget it. Guess what?
Speaker 1:immediately those units in combat were spotting those snipers and those trigger men and those dangers and that's also why we, you know, have things like we call things urban masking and social camouflage and street tools right that's up, that's that, that's it. That's a better name and it's more real, and I can come up with my own examples. Then go hey, greg, you know, give me some examples of reification that you've seen. It's like well, shit, hang on. This is kind of a complex thing. What do you?
Speaker 2:mean it's like no, no, you've seen this before with the reintegration.
Speaker 1:And the next thing you know you're sitting there.
Speaker 2:I don't have enough yellow pads, Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like it's a keep it simple. I have to. You know the way my brain categorizes things and the context in which I see them and how they're laid out, and it creates a story, and so that story has to make sense to my brain, so it will force it to make sense, no matter what. Whether I'm right, wrong, indifferent, doesn't matter. Like it's going, I'm not walking away without knowing the ending of this story. I have to know it. Otherwise I can't handle it.
Speaker 2:So let me take you back to that example and give you one more. Okay, so we've got the garbage piled up in our living room if we're not a copper and if we're a copper, we've got the dumpster tipped over and we're out there with the flashlights, we're taking looks at stuff. Okay, you and I had set up for the years that we worked together, and before, when you first met me, you saw this example. I took a simple photo, turned it into a video of a traffic stop and had the copper walking up on a vehicle and I stopped the tape before you notice, and people are yelling stuff at the screen. You were one of those young Marines yelling stuff at the screen and when I got to a point, I let some stuff hang in the air and I said what's the matter with this? And I pointed to the rear of the car and the brake lights were on. Well, guess what? If your foot's on the brake and the brake lights are on, brian, that means something, and nobody was seeing what it meant specifically the cop, and that meant that the person might be ready to drive away.
Speaker 2:So once that epiphany moment hit in that class, those marines were on to that. And then the next few pieces of candy that we put on the the floor of the carpet in front of them were easier for them to pick up and assume what was going to happen next to to to think about the process, and that's advanced critical. To happen next to to to to think about the process, and that's advanced critical thinking. Being able to throw those items around from that garbage and say these are the most likely.
Speaker 2:Now, these are the things I don't know and they become my unknowns. So I have a pile of knowns, I have a pile of unknowns and guess what I have. If I have an unknown, I get an extra set. I mean, there's so few things that I have to think about now, and that's survival-based thinking. Everybody thinks survival-based thinking is what you eat and flipping the tire and having the fastest gun draw. Yeah, that's all important, I agree and stick to that because you're really good at that. But let us handle the critical thinking stuff and how your brain works in those dynamic situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the biggest well, not the biggest one of the issues with this and even with the theory of close enough what we talked to and that intuitive decision-making and seeing a pattern emerge from a few simple cues or clues or things that I'm picking up on in my environment is one of the things that I hear too. It's then people have that that hard time going well, I think this is it, but I may be wrong. Or people go I know what this is and it's that, and they are wrong. Right, so there's either that, that. The hard part then, too, is sort of this, this avoiding pitfalls and ethical dimension, think you tell me I would. I would say the best way to answer, that is to you know, to guard against, you know, snap judgments or incorrect, faulty biases, right, is that it's? It's more about that contextually based process of doing it right.
Speaker 1:I have to have a way to look at, I have to understand and sort of try to see what that front of the puzzle, you know box, would look like, even though I haven't seen it yet and I've got the pieces laid out of me because you know there's only so many possibilities. It's like okay, I see some whiskers and an ear. Okay, that's a cat. So there's it's, it's a scene involving a cat, what, what, what could possibly be involved in that? And then I can start to kind of put it together from there.
Speaker 1:If that makes sense because that's one of the biggest things to see is either a failure to act, because it's like, well, I don't want to be wrong, because I don't really, maybe I'm not as confident in my observation or an overreaction, like yeah, dude, I've seen it before, I've seen everything there is, I know, like I know what it is right, and they're both equally as dangerous. I would say right, the failure to act or overreacting. So it's like that's, that's one of the toughest, that's one of the toughest things with any of this, with any observation and predictive analysis, right, is that fear of being wrong or fear of being too right? You know what I mean, where a hundred times that would be correct, but in this situation it's different. Well, why is it so? How can I understand this better? Or what do I do to avoid some of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so stay away from the more study is necessary mentality, because that's for academics.
Speaker 2:That's the principles and every one of your friends will hate you, but conduct experiments all the time. So when I was younger, growing up on the street, halloween really meant something. In Detroit, detroit metro area yeah, devil's Night before, which I won't go into, but there was a lot of smoke and arson and death and mayhem and then the night of Halloween. So what I saw when I was a kid and growing up from being a kid to an adult, is that kids would have a mask that had Dracula or Frankenstein or some zombie character or something else and they would have it on their face. But the problem was that you would constantly see them tip up the mask and have it off of their face and everybody's first thought was, oh well, it's too hot, or they were looking around or anything else. Yeah, that's what it was. What it was is they were scaring themselves when they had the mask down and they saw the face on the mask, they scared themselves and they didn't like it as much when they could have that mask ready, but they had it up on their face and then I saw the interactions with the other little kids. So let's protract that. If you get where I'm going, let's protract that to the first time you saw a baseball game. First time you saw a baseball game you had no idea what you were watching and you sat there and you saw that there was a form and a rhythm and there was certain things that happened to it. And you heard that some things were good because you heard the crowd scream and some things were bad, that you heard the crowd boo. So the same thing as me, watching those kids and trying to figure out what was in their head on Halloween, happened to me, my first Tiger downtown Detroit baseball game.
Speaker 2:I had questions, and so what I did is I looked and I said these are the logical answers, that I was based on the reality. Well, we go counterclockwise. Well, what do you mean? Well, nobody ran to the third baseline. Well, there's a hits that are really good, but the longer hits are caught much more frequently. And the hits infield guess what? If they can beat that run at a first base, you're out.
Speaker 2:So I start establishing the architecture of the observation. But where does both of those things start? From a baseline. I have to fully understand the baseline and I have to compare the knowns and the unknowns against the baseline and what I expected to see and I have to anticipate and I have to have curiosity is what I'm explaining here to be able to walk across and go. Why does your kid want to be a wolf man? But when he sees the wolf man he screams. So these are the type of things that we're talking about.
Speaker 2:So what we do when you come to a class is we take all that wonderful science that we use and we make it practical in your life so you can see it showing up at school, you can see it during the HR interview, you understand walking to church. And now, by understanding the baseline, we give you these conundrums, we give you these conflicts and and and different ways that you can test them, and we'd say, okay, well, this exterior schema occurred here, but we don't call it a schema. We go this guy is carrying whatever right and by trial and error, you start coming to the epiphany moment on your own. So we crawl, walk, run it through until you now say pass me the baton, I'm in the end of the race. Now, that was a long way to get around a tent, but the idea is, there's no better way than to think about something that you don't understand. How long would it take you to sit and watch and then conduct little tests before you understand it.
Speaker 2:And that's how you learn to ride a bike, that's how you learn to go swimming, that's how you learn all the lessons that lasted your entire life, and all we're doing is recreating that in a classroom in an exciting, fun, educational, entertaining way, because if we didn't, brian, it would just be like high school. You forgot 90% of the shit you learned in high school and you'll never, use it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, it's, you know it, it it's, it's really you know. What we're talking about is learning to see the whole picture right. How do, how do I see that whole picture? So you know, it's like all right, well, the, the, everything we just talked about, you know, with gestalt and emergence, reification, re-denigration, everything we mentioned, like that's, that's a constant, that's in your life, that's always going on, that's something that's happening. So what? Going on, that's something that's happening. So what I always like to do is like all right, well, how do I get better at that?
Speaker 1:Or how to get better at understanding is it is, you know, use your own life experiences of something you've gone through before or seen, and you go back and go well, why did I choose option a when I should have gone with option c, or what was it about that situation? And then it's easier, obviously, in in hindsight, to go back and reflect on those. And especially it's easier if it's personal to you, because you were there, knowing that, like you maybe didn't get the full picture, but but let's, let's break it down. What were the all of the elements that happened? And then I always find the most value out of doing that is going back and being like, oh, I get it. You know, this is why, you know, my wife had such an attitude when I walked in. And nothing to do with me. I should have known, well, wait, she just got. This happened at work, and then this, and then Max was sick, and then this, and then that I'm like, oh I, that that was what it was. These were all of these contributing factors to that negative interaction we just had. It had nothing to do with what I said or did, right, we, you know.
Speaker 1:And so what it's, what it's easy to do, is then you can go back and pull out those pieces, and then it just builds your own library, builds your own schema, your own mental file, folders of, of, of going forward in, especially if it's for a specific context, right, you're, you know, doing interdiction, you're doing fugitive apprehension. You're, you can go back and go, wait a minute, there's all these commonalities between all of these. What are those things and what else would they look like? And then you build that sort of mental Rolodex, so you have an infinite amount of examples that you can draw back on. And now you're building that where your brain is using all of these concepts to its advantage going.
Speaker 1:Hey, wait a minute, this isn't fitting here because you've seen this before. It wasn't exactly the same, but it was cognitively close enough. So now I have something to go off of. Now I have a comparison that's accurate because it happened to me. It actually was something that occurred in a situation I was in. So I can draw from this experience and go well, how is this the same, how is this different? What else should I expect to see from that? I knew what the outcome was there and that was bad. Or I knew what the outcome was there and it was really good. So how do I, how do I mirror that? Or what? What similarities can I draw from to? To get me to a more reasonable conclusion? Just just seeing the whole picture Is that I don't?
Speaker 2:know if that kind of makes sense. And so let me let me throw this at you we don't. Ever we use behavior and we use human behavior in interaction, interaction with the baseline. We never use race or religion or ideological differences or those types of patterns. And when we do use context, context is relative, because context gives us a way to take a look at a situation and go well, there's something I didn't understand. So the way like, for example, I'll give you this example it's much easier for me to tell stories. I'm getting older and I'm forgetting that sometimes it's easier just to give you a practical example.
Speaker 2:So I get everybody lined up in the classroom and I take half the class outside and I go Johnny Cash is a Hasidic Jew, I need you to take a minute and come in and prove it to us. And then I take everybody into class I'm Ms Carmi, by the way and I say these guys are going to come in and say Johnny Cash is a Hasidic Jew. Why is that wrong? So the first thing is what's the postulation, what's the hypothesis? What are we working on? Well, every time I've seen Johnny Cash, he's wearing black. Matter of fact, he's called the theory of close enough, I'm jumping to an unreasonable conclusion and I'm putting a round peg in a square hole. Well, what about a Hasidic Jew? Well, because of their religion. Now here's where culture becomes context. Religion becomes context. I add that to my baseline and go. They have to wear certain clothes over other clothes, and this and a hat and those things. So what I'm doing is I'm framing learning, not about religion. I'm learning from comparison. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Speaker 1:What do?
Speaker 2:I have to compare it against.
Speaker 1:I am comparing it with the baseline. And you're learning how to draw a reasonable assumption.
Speaker 2:Conclusions based on artifacts and evidence, and when I don't know something, I'm not going to rush to an unreasonable conclusion. What am I going to use? I'm going to use the gift of time and distance to go. There's something happening here. Why does this person wear black all the time? And you know what, brian? It might be something as simple as a fashion statement, but I've run it through scientific rigor, I've run it through academic rigor, I just didn't know. I did so.
Speaker 2:That baseball game, brian. Something's going to happen in the baseball game and that guy's going to hit a rope and you're going to wonder why isn't he running? And then your dad leans down or your mom and says because it was out of bounds. What do you mean? We see that line in the paint. You see so through our lives. We need that coach, we need that mentor, we need that trainer to teach us about bunts and to teach us about ground rule doubles. But we don't have to have that to play baseball or to enjoy watching baseball. So what we do is we bring the science based evidence that's been vetted and we bring it to you and we just allow you to sit and have a hot dog and watch the baseball game, but you're still learning. You're learning a bunch of valuable stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those are. Those are simple things, kind of you can practice even throughout your day. All right, you know what? What are the? What are the pre-event indicators? I see to what you know when the insurgent comes home from school. It's different when she comes right up to me versus when she goes straight to her room or something, or when you know when they do this. What are those things that tend to show that I know where this is going?
Speaker 2:This is where you become the genius and take over the entire company and corporation, because you don't need me anymore. What's it look like around your company before lunch? What's it look like before Jim and Tammy take their smoke break? Give me the pre-event indication that you see, so you can tell 15 minutes before that you're 15 minutes out from whatever it is. Olsens are going on vacation. Prove it. You owe me those things and, brian, those artifacts and evidence abound. They're there every single day. What we don't understand is we don't understand how to increase the likelihood by using a scientific methodology of comparing them against knowns and unknowns and a baseline to determine what's relevant and what's more likely than not. And all we got to do is make better decisions. We don't have to make the best decision Many times. We'll never get to that. We won't have the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's well, that's the thing. It's what's. You know, there is no best decision right. I look at it as what's the best decision now, or what's good enough, because that's a win, and over time, though, that's a win. Over time, though, that's a huge win. I mean, you don't have to knock out of the park. You're looking at at singles and doubles back to baseball.
Speaker 2:You gotta get out of base, don't you? Yeah, well, you gotta you.
Speaker 1:You got me on the baseball one, so now I want a hot dog. Yeah, you're getting hungry it's lunchtime for greg, all right. Well, we we covered a lot and I think we'll.
Speaker 1:We'll add in some more and do a few more examples for everyone on our patreon page. Folks can check it out. You can even check it out for free for a while. We got a ton of information on there. We've got even more and it's a good centralized location putting more of our content out there that we even put on like linkedin and other places. That's like you can just access all in one place. I'm trying to get it all there Just that way if you want to follow along. There's articles, there's blog posts, there's videos. I do a lot of summaries of the different podcast stuff for little takeaways so you can practice on your own too. It was all on there so you can check that out, but I don't know Any other final comments Greg.
Speaker 2:No, I was just thinking of Shelly when we were doing the baseball example.
Speaker 1:You're hungry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am. And at work somebody approached Shelly with the brackets and you should have heard her. She ranted for 45 minutes on brackets. Why? Because she understands nothing. She doesn't understand the concepts about her or anything else, and Shelly likes knowing everything. So what do you think she was doing all last night? Putting together brackets and trying to figure out the math and where's the angle. So look, when we say do your homework, we are in a group of people that are constantly intellectually challenging themselves to be the best that they can be. And improve your cognition improves your overall safety and survivability. So part of it's on you.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I think that's good and thanks everyone for tuning in. Don't forget to share the episode with a friend if you enjoyed it, and give us a. Give us a thumbs up or a like. It really helps out a lot. We do appreciate that, and don't forget that training changes behavior.
